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Baldur's Gate 3 releases Oct 6 for Mac


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#1 Cougar

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 12:54 PM

A nice surprise. Thought this would come later.

https://twitter.com/...168926059175941

Early access, though. It'll be a long time before I play this.

#2 Tacohead

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 02:38 PM

What an unexpected surprise! I figured it would come for us at some point based on the recent track record but definitely not in Early Access. I will still wait for the official release but this is great news!
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#3 nick68k

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 05:06 PM

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#4 Matt Diamond

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 07:39 PM

I am tempted to give them money for this even though I ran out of steam and never finished Divinity II.

(It was my fault, I just can't resist side quests.)

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#5 nick68k

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 08:07 AM

150 Gb installation though. The meatball is a little too spicy for me.
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#6 Ichigo27

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 02:04 PM

View Postnick68k, on 06 October 2020 - 08:07 AM, said:

150 Gb installation though. The meatball is a little too spicy for me.

Doesn't even run as low as mojave. For a game of that graphical quality you'd think it could run on minimum settings with at least a GPU on par with a radeonR7 260X or even a 250. And the CPU? You need at least a quad core i7.  For hard drive space, I honestly thought that was going to be only 20-50Gbs.
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#7 RGoulder

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 02:27 PM

I caved and bought it, though since I don't have 10.15 it will be a long while before I play it. I will add it to my ever increasing backlog of steam games.

I rarely pay full price for games these days but If a developer goes the extra mile of supporting the Mac platform, I'll throw them some money especially for an RPG.

Eventually I'll figure out a way to play it, maybe get a nice external flash drive to put Catalina on and dual boot. Or wait and buy myself a gaming PC, starts to drool over that 3090 overkill of a graphics card... :sabber:...someday. Not sure yet.

#8 nick68k

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 03:02 PM

View PostIchigo27, on 06 October 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Doesn't even run as low as mojave. For a game of that graphical quality you'd think it could run on minimum settings with at least a GPU on par with a radeonR7 260X or even a 250. And the CPU? You need at least a quad core i7.  For hard drive space, I honestly thought that was going to be only 20-50Gbs.

Yeah. I don't have a hope in hell on running on my current setup. I'll wait for the Infinity Engine Unenhanced Edition. Get to it, Beamdog.
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#9 Cougar

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Posted 06 October 2020 - 03:19 PM

View PostIchigo27, on 06 October 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Doesn't even run as low as mojave. For a game of that graphical quality you'd think it could run on minimum settings with at least a GPU on par with a radeonR7 260X or even a 250. And the CPU? You need at least a quad core i7.  For hard drive space, I honestly thought that was going to be only 20-50Gbs.

Given that the game can't run on PS4/XB1 the requirements don't surprise me, except for the disk space.

#10 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 03:10 AM

Ars Technica really didn't like the early access game. This does not bode well for the final game.. But I am personally not surprised. The 3D engine really changes the feel of the game completely, and it looks like Larian wrote a bad story... :S
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#11 Cougar

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 08:05 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 07 October 2020 - 03:10 AM, said:

Ars Technica really didn't like the early access game. This does not bode well for the final game.. But I am personally not surprised. The 3D engine really changes the feel of the game completely, and it looks like Larian wrote a bad story... :S

That review itself doesnít particularly worry me. Larian has said they stacked the roster with the darker characters for Early Access because they go underutilized and they want to be sure they get tested.

As for the combat, the author doesnít sound like theyíre experienced with 5e rules and the game and UI does a bad job communicating them. Iím sure itíll be worked on.

Though I havenít yet played the Divinity games, from my understanding Larian is great with combat and bad with narrative. So the story is still my primary concern.

#12 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 07 October 2020 - 01:42 PM

I absolutely enjoyed Original Sin 1, so much in fact, I played Divine Divinity right after, despite its age. Gameplay wise it was soooo good. Story was pretty crazy though, but acceptable. They tried to cram as much into it as possible, but I definitely felt that some areas were under-developed, likely due to funds (It was a Kickstarter). Still haven't played OS2 yet, as I don't have anything good to play it on.
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#13 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 09:07 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 07 October 2020 - 03:10 AM, said:

Ars Technica really didn't like the early access game. This does not bode well for the final game.. But I am personally not surprised. The 3D engine really changes the feel of the game completely, and it looks like Larian wrote a bad story... :S

Basically this.  

Its got about as much in common with Baldur's Gate as  a fly has in common with a bird  

And, yeah, Larian wrote a bad story.  Thats like... their schtick.  Did you ever play any of the Divinity games?  The stories are bland, boring, and bad.  Only thing that saved any of them was gameplay, and Divinity: Original Sin 1 barely had that (It still had it, but there were some spots where it was utter drek that didn't get fixed - and only barely - until Definitive Edition; 2 was better, but in some ways worse because it was extremely opaque about how the systems worked so it was stupid easy to basically make a non-viable character by accident).  

And the fact that the BG3 story appears to be the -worst- kind of virtue-singaling non-self-aware-of-how-bad-it-is wokeness coupled with the TERRIBLE "every character has to be some utterly unlikely (and in the RAW, not even possible/legal) combination of absurd races/classes/special-im-cool-because-im-cool-and-its-cool-to-like-cool things that substitutes for the character actually being well written or interesting.  Which is not something BG1 or 2 had, at all.  The characters were interesting, basically rules legal (the powers you got as a Bhaalspawn weren't, but are the kind of thing a GM might do to add a core conceit/mission to a campaign), and avoided most of the common tropes.  (The Dark Elf wasnt "a misunderstood good Dark Elf" - she was evil.  Etc.)  And it made sense for them to ally with you and support you.  

Apparently just in the first few hours of the game (BG3), its clear the entire world hates you, your own party members hate you (and no particular reason is given for why they should want to, or have to, stick with you anyway) and have the personalities befiting their "im cool because im a cool combination of race and class tropes"  makeup.  And lets not forget the MASSIVE ret-con of Mind Flayers (though this may have also been done in the D&D source material so if it is, cant blame Larian).  

And thats the other thing.. this isn't BG3, its D:OS 3 wearing a very thin skin of 5th Ed D&D.

Its "very thin" part that is the issue since 5th Ed. is FAR more like 2nd Ed (which is what the Infinity Engine games were based on) than 3, 3.5 and 4 ever were.  If they really wanted to make it feel like BG, theyd have been VERY accurate to 5th Ed (especially since 5th Ed lends itself very well to turn based).  

Its gonna be a dumpster fire.  Not sure what people were expecting.  Larian's never been a breakout/amazing studio.  They aren't trash either.. but theyre agressively middle of the road.

#14 Tetsuya

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Posted 10 October 2020 - 09:35 PM

If you're looking for a game that feels like a BG game, do yourself a favor and try Pathfinder: Kingmaker.  

Its got some serious issues (some were just bad design decisions, others were "lost in translation" problems created by the Developers being Russian and VERY old-school in their "DM" Style (punishing, able to actually fail the main quest and straight up lose the game, certain encounters being entirely unfair unless you die to them once and then re-load and completely re-design your party and spell loadout for that battle, but if you went in cold you'd lose no matter what).  

But it FEELS like a BG game.  The companions are interesting, largely rules-legal (though it is Pathfinder - so basically D&D 3.75, so VERY crunchy, but their translation of the PF system to a CRPG was extremely faithful - better than any D&D adaption prior to that, at least), their reasons for staying with you make sense even if they dont like you (the evil characters, if you're a good aligned character, make it clear they are sticking with you as a path to power, etc), and their personal quests and stories are actually quite well done.  (Particularly Nok-Nok, Olivia, Ekundayo, and the Tiefling Twins).  

And if you dont want to use the premades?  Cool.  You can create an entire party of custom characters if you like, only using the premades when the story demands it (which it never does for the main quest, only for their side quests).  

I'd definitely suggest reading up on some of the systems before you play (particularly Kingdom Management, where some decisions you might have made 10+ hours of gameplay ago can put your kingdom in a deathspiral that you cant fix and lose you the game) so you dont lock yourself into bad decisions out of ignorance (this is one of the games flaws, the devs didnt do a great job of detailing how important those decisions (some quest, and some Kingdom-related) can cost you the game (there is never a "hey, if you ignore these problems/quests, you will literally see a Game Over, sometimes 6+ hours later" anywhere in the game).  

But other than the obtuseness of the quest design and Kingdom Management design (some of which is just bad and has to be dealt with, no varnishing it, theyre just bad) and the absurd "Normal" difficulty actually being almost 2.5x tougher than the PnP rules (but this can be fixed easily either by altering the settings (the settings are REALLY customizable) or using a simple mod that makes everything PnP correct (which the dev actually said to use, and considered co-opting for the game but then just figured since the mod was out there there was no need) its the most like a BG game ive played since BG.  Its feels more like Infinity Engine games than anything since the IE games.  

Its got rough edges, but after you learn them, its a blast.  ANd its got a TON of content and stuff to do, and the DLC (which comes with the DE) is actually clever and plays a part in the main campaign.  You play a different party of adventurers that you met in the prelude who went off to a different area nearby and see (play) what they did, and then you can import your DLC save into your main campaign and the decisions you made alter how the quest to go investigate that area goes.  

It was actually the DLC that proved to me how solid the core game was if you could get a handle on the flaws - because it DOESNT have the kingdom management mode and is just a good old quest driven 8 or 9 hours of content, (and once you set the options to have the monsters be closer to PnP stats) it really works and shows that the core engine particularly was really well done.  It was a seriously good bit on its own and made me re-evaluate the game ( was just about to set it down because of how frustrating the Kingdom stuff could be - though there IS an option t set the kingdom to never die and auto-run itself, if you do that you can miss out on a ton of side quests and really good loot from Artisans that you can only get from manual management.  It is there, though, if you just dont want to deal with it).  

There are also a ton of good mods for it out there (since its a Unity game, theyre super easy to install even on MacOS - a guy made a simple "drag mod ZIP here, locate your install, done" installer.) that can compensate for some of the weird decisions.  

For instance,d espite the game being 3D you cant move the camera angle (its fixed isometric like IE games), but a simple mod lets you do that if you want.  It sometimes makes targetting easier where the landscape is occluding the view.  There's a good mod to set the monsters to PnP (the in game settings can get you close, but its a lot of fiddling, and never gets you dead on - they either end up slightly easier (about 85% of PnP or slightly tougher - 125% of PnP, but still WAY more playable than the default which is basically 200+%).  I didnt bother using that, as toning them down to ~125% was playable and kept the game challenging into the high teens levels (where items start to get powerful enough to make you nuts regardless).  There's Bag of Tricks which enables TONS of cheats/hacks/QoL stuff (like disabling encumberance, setting all kingdom events to resolve in 1 day, etc, and had a respec mod (it being Pathfinder, its kind easy to gimp your characters if you're not familiar with PF) - but that isn't needed since they added and NPC from the Pathfinder Society to the game to let you respec (first 3 are free, doubling cost afterward).  I used it for just two features - one, to correct an EXP disparity with using custom characters (the earliest you can get them, you've earned enuogh XP to be level 2 and they start at level 1, which is fine but later in the game it got super annoying with them not leveling when everyone else did so i added 1000xp to them (at that point like one encounter) just to save the annoyance - and it has a feature where when you're abuot to hit a kingdom event that advances a chunk of time (some events lock you into skippijg X days immediately) it will auto-assign any free advisors to projects yu may have missed.  

Its a really decent experience particularly given how cheap you can usually pick it up.

Edit

Also, get the "Cleaner" mod - the game save files can balloon to huge sizes (something to do with Unity's default save style which the devs didn't tinker with) because it saves the dead bodies and loot in each zone by snapshoting each zone.  The Cleaner mod just adds a button to the loot window that pops up when you leave a zone, and when you hit "clean", it deletes/erases the loot you dont care about and all the bodes, and vastly saves space in your save file.  Which really helps with load times later.

"Highling Learnable Scrolls" is also good, and does just what it says.  If your caster can learn the spell, the scroll will highlight in your inventory.  Saves guesswork.

#15 Janichsan

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 12:28 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 10 October 2020 - 09:07 PM, said:

... with the TERRIBLE "every character has to be some utterly unlikely (and in the RAW, not even possible/legal) combination of absurd races/classes/special-im-cool-because-im-cool-and-its-cool-to-like-cool things ...
I can't comment on your opinion of the story and the writing (as I haven't played the EA), but these parts of your comments make me wonder if you really know as much about D&D 5e as you think.

There are no "illegal" race/class combinations in D&D 5e. Every race can take on every class. Some combinations make more sense due to racial traits, but nothing stops you to come up with unusual combinations. The PHB literally mentions half-orc paladins and halfling wizards as examples.

None of the race/class/subclass combinations the companions in BG3 have are in the slightest unlikely or even unusual, based on what I've seen (save for Gale's gimmick). Githyanki and Vampires as player characters are not in the core rule books, but in one of the countless supplements. Both have a long-running tradition in D&D, going back to at least 2e.

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Its "very thin" part that is the issue since 5th Ed. is FAR more like 2nd Ed (which is what the Infinity Engine games were based on) than 3, 3.5 and 4 ever were.
The 5e is nowhere closer to the 2e than 3 or 3.5 were. Some of the game mechanics are more similar to the 2e, many others are very different.

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...(especially since 5th Ed lends itself very well to turn based).
As does every other edition since PnP Dungeons & Dragons is turn-based by nature.

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#16 Tetsuya

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 04:21 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 12 October 2020 - 12:28 PM, said:

I can't comment on your opinion of the story and the writing (as I haven't played the EA), but these parts of your comments make me wonder if you really know as much about D&D 5e as you think.

There are no "illegal" race/class combinations in D&D 5e. Every race can take on every class. Some combinations make more sense due to racial traits, but nothing stops you to come up with unusual combinations. The PHB literally mentions half-orc paladins and halfling wizards as examples.

You missed or deliberately glossed over the "stuff that makes me cool because its cool to be cool and im cool because im cool" and random additions of powers just to have them part.  

Race/class combinations - whatever.  All races being able to be all classes is a trash game design decision, but it is what it is.  Why be faithful to any lore? But that wasnt solely what im talking about.

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None of the race/class/subclass combinations the companions in BG3 have are in the slightest unlikely or even unusual, based on what I've seen (save for Gale's gimmick).

Except the part where none of them should be common.  At all.  BG is Forgotten Realms.  None of those races have significant populations on Toril.  Like, not even .01%.  Toril is predominately populated by the core races and always has been, with humans being the VAST majority and the demihuman races existing in just large enough populations so as to not make them odd to see outside their homelands.  BG1 and 2 reflect this.  There was maybe ONE character in each game that was a "rare" or unusual race.  (The Dark Elf Cleric in the first game, and i think maybe BG 2 had maybe 2 (Avariel and Tiefling - but Avariel are "uncommon" but not rare.  Tieflings are basically supposed to be statistically non-existent (and in 2nd Ed, they aren't demon-horned, tail-bearing, obviously-not-remotely-human - they are basically able to pass as human and have a single trait that points to non-human heritage, often just a rare skin color) outside of the Planescape setting (and even then they arent a super big part of the population).  

All you have to do, quite honestly, is look at Larian's whingy tweet about how boring the "main character" options people made were.  Because uh... guess what Larian?  Most people aren't interested in your green flying horned super-saiyan sorcerer-dragon-warrior-wizard.  They just want a solid story with decent characters that are interesting because they are actually well written characters that makes sense for the setting.  And BG3 is delivering a party full of extra-special super saiayn magical snowflakes who are about as interesting as paste.  And they all hate you.  But stay with you.  For raisins.

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Githyanki and Vampires as player characters are not in the core rule books, but in one of the countless supplements. Both have a long-running tradition in D&D, going back to at least 2e.

As villains. GithZERAI were playable in Planescape, but not other settings, and were SUBSTANTIALLY weaker than Githyanki (which were never a playable race in 2nd, their natural abilities alone make them insane).  Vampires were never playable characters in any version of D&D through 3.5 (i have no idea in 4.0 as i read the core rules for that drek and never bothered; it was basically just a bad tabletop minis combat game crossed with an MMO - also caveat that because of the OGL, a lot of stuff got published for 3/3.5 that was NOT published by WotC), and if they are playable in 5.0, thats a huge flaw and mistake.  (*Githzerai were the same base race (GIth) but didn't sell out to the forces of evil for massive power like the Githyanki did, basically they were "we want to make Gith playable without trying to explain Githyanki could ever be anything other than evil and as a base 4-5x more powerful than other PC races").  

Hell, half-orcs  were removed as playable characters in 2nd, and only added back in - kind of, since the entire book had a caveat of "if your GM allows it" - in the Complete Book of Humanoids.  

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The 5e is nowhere closer to the 2e than 3 or 3.5 were. Some of the game mechanics are more similar to the 2e, many others are very different.

Im not going to bother breaking it down because it would be a 15 page post (easily) and i just dont have the time and think it would probably be pointless - but you're not right here.  Ill add something i normally hate - an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy to add that - im actually a published writer for multiple game systems.  This is something i do, for money.  Not on a massive scale - my other gigs dont allow for it, but ive had my material published by Paizo, Palladium Books, WEG (before they went down), Last Unicorn Games (before they went down) and others, and have written two bespoke LARP systems for LARPs that are still in business and making money today.  I happen to know what im talking about here.

Its not just the "game mechanics" its the FEEL of the game system.  3.0, 3.5 (and 3.75 - Pathfinder, though Paizo is not WoTC, and PF2 is... awful) and 4.0 stressed ROLLPlaying and not Roleplaying.  Pre d20, if you asked someone to tell you about their D&D character or game, you'd get a cool story about what their characters did, how the adventure turned out.  

Post d20, you get a description about how cool their Half-Aasimar, Half-dragon, Sorcerer/Paladin (take that 1 level dip) who is actually LE because why obey the rules), used his feat that made his spells do this thing that "go on 15 minute talk about nothing but game mechanics that ends with no description of the story, what their characters personality is like, etc".  There's nothing wrong with a Beer & Pretzels, RP-lite game... but thats not D&D was prior to that.  Go read things like the Complete Book of Villains or the Complete Paladins Handbook.  There is NO "crunch" (rules/mechanics/power inflating stuff) in the CBV.  None.  Its one of the best supplements for a game ive ever seen.  There's a SINGLE chapter in the CPH that has mechanics in it (the subclass like "kits" that all of the Complete Class books had, and a few new Holy Swords that weren't the +5 Holy Avenger).  

3/3.5/4 were way more action oriented (which is fine, if thats your jam.  The Palladium system is basically that distilled, and i write for that (though im currently involved in a .... gentlemans disagreement with Palladium's owner/Publisher that he needs to update the core rules because they have been layered on so much that they no longer work) frequently (since they publish a quarterly sourcebook series, The Rifter)

So, when i say "5th Ed is the most like 2nd Ed since 2nd Ed" im not just talking game mechanics (of which ive read the core rulebooks and not much else, other than the FR setting), im talking... how the game plays and feels.  It promotes Roleplaying again, not Rollplaying, It FEELS like D&D again, and not a crunch-heavy combat simulation.  And while yes, you could choose to focus your 3/3.5/4 game towards roleplaying, as a group/GM, but the books didn't push you that way and didn't provide a lot of support or encouragement for it.  5th does, at least in the ~8ish books ive read (the core books + FR books).  Hell, the actual mechanics are strictly mediocre (bounded accuracy is a terrible mechanical decision and breaks the game in dozens of ways).  

Its the same way that despite being based on possibly THE crunchiest version of a D&D system ever done (Pathfinder 1), Kingmaker FEELS like a BG game.  Mechanically they have almost nothing in common at all.  But the design and feel of the game FEELS like a BG game.  

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As does every other edition since PnP Dungeons & Dragons is turn-based by nature.

Actually, the other editions lend themselves far better to pause-based, because the default round is 6 seconds, not 1 minute.  Theyre much more action-oriented than 2nd and 5th.

#17 Matt Diamond

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Posted 12 October 2020 - 06:49 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 12 October 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:

Actually, the other editions lend themselves far better to pause-based, because the default round is 6 seconds, not 1 minute.  Theyre much more action-oriented than 2nd and 5th.

I'm glad you clarified that. When you first wrote that 5e lent itself to turn-based, I was confused. D&D is almost always played turn-based, in the computer-game sense of the word, because its not real-time.

There are exceptions, like in Tomb of Horrors where (IIRC) the DM was told to silently start a timer on the players after they enter a room.

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#18 Janichsan

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 11:35 AM

View PostTetsuya, on 12 October 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:

You missed or deliberately glossed over the "stuff that makes me cool because its cool to be cool and im cool because im cool" and random additions of powers just to have them part.
Yes, I did gloss over that, as I have no idea what you mean. Except for Gale's implanted magic nuke and Astarion's mild case of vampirism, I don't see anything really unusual. But as I said, I haven't played the EA and don't have all information. So enlighten me.

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Race/class combinations - whatever.  All races being able to be all classes is a trash game design decision, but it is what it is.
Not Larian's decision, though.

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Except the part where none of them should be common.  At all.  BG is Forgotten Realms.  None of those races have significant populations on Toril.  Like, not even .01%.  Toril is predominately populated by the core races and always has been, with humans being the VAST majority and the demihuman races existing in just large enough populations so as to not make them odd to see outside their homelands.
Again, I'm not seeing what you are talking about. Save for the admittedly (on purpose) exotic Githyanki, there's an Elf, a Half-Elf, and two Humans. You know, core races.

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As villains. GithZERAI were playable in Planescape, but not other settings, ...
You remember that Planescape was supposed to be the setting to link all settings? Where the explicit intent was to allow characters from the "traditional" worlds travel to the planes? And vice versa?

Tieflings were originally a Planescape "exclusive" race as well, and yet tiefling NPCs and companions turned up in Baldur's Gate II. Other planar beings, including Gith, also were used as NPCs and/or enemies in various official adventures set in the FR. Of course they are supposed to be extraordinary and exotic. But why shouldn't it possible for them to turn up as one-of-a-kind player character?

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...Githyanki (which were never a playable race in 2nd, ...).
They were not? Weird...

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(That's the Planescape Guide to the Astral Plane, by the way...)

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Vampires were never playable characters in any version of D&D through 3.5...
I have to admit here that I wasn't precise enough: you are correct that full-blown vampires were never playable characters (outside house rules, maybe), but some kind of playable "lesser" vampires was added in a Ravenloft supplement. Unlike the Githyanki, I can't tell you precisely in which one, as I'm by far not as familiar with this setting as I am with Planescape. The basic idea was similar to the playable Vampire Spawns added in 3.5e's Libris Mortis, as in that they were supposed to be former minions of a "true" vampire liberated from its influence. There weren't called "Vampire Spawn" in 2e, though.

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Its not just the "game mechanics" its the FEEL of the game system.
Okay, but you haven't made that point particularly clear when you originally started riffing on this. I disagree with you about this, though, as this...

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Post d20, you get a description about how cool their Half-Aasimar, Half-dragon, Sorcerer/Paladin (take that 1 level dip) who is actually LE because why obey the rules), used his feat that made his spells do this thing that "go on 15 minute talk about nothing but game mechanics that ends with no description of the story, what their characters personality is like, etc".  
...is still very much true for 5e, only to a slightly lesser extent than the previous editions.

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Actually, the other editions lend themselves far better to pause-based, because the default round is 6 seconds, not 1 minute.  Theyre much more action-oriented than 2nd and 5th.

Let me quote the 5e Player's Handbook here (page 181, emphasis as in the PHB):

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In combat and other fast-paced situations, the game relies on rounds, a 6-second span of time described in chapter 9.
Still sure about your point? (Also, let's not forget that 2e's rounds where divided into 6-second subunits as well.)

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#19 Cougar

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 12:36 PM

NERD FIGHT. :box:

#20 Janichsan

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Posted 13 October 2020 - 12:54 PM

View PostCougar, on 13 October 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

NERD FIGHT. :box:
Wait guys! I lost my glasses! I cannot see without my glasses!! No guys, really! This is not funny!

"We do what we must, because we can."
"Gaming on a Mac is like women on the internet." — "Highly common and totally awesome?"