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Mac Gaming is Dead™ – 2021 Edition

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#141 Cougar

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 12:41 PM

I feel like that means that if it's on the Mac now, it'll continue to get support. But I wouldn't count on Blizzard's next MMO to be on anything but Microsoft platforms.

#142 nick68k

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 01:03 PM

View PostCougar, on 18 January 2022 - 12:41 PM, said:

I feel like that means that if it's on the Mac now, it'll continue to get support. But I wouldn't count on Blizzard's next MMO to be on anything but Microsoft platforms.

Yeah I strongly doubt that we'll see any new Blizzard titles on the Mac after this. But that was going to be the case anyway, right?

WoW is an interesting case as the xpacs do bring a significant refresh to the game in terms of graphics and systems. Perhaps we're fortunate that it's already Apple Silicon native.
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#143 UmarOMC1

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 07:49 PM

MS will port where it matters, herein I see the reason behind the purchase—they were always on the same page…do you not have phones? And I'm sure that Blizzard's launcher won't be twisted into a hub to sign up for the [eventually necessary] XBOX Live account like they did with Minecra— :o
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#144 Homy

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 10:26 PM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 18 January 2022 - 09:05 AM, said:

apple has trillions in their postage, why don't they buy a mac-portner?...there is none left. the porters moved away already...

Maybe someday they will in some form but right now it wouldn't be profitable. How much would they get back if they would spent $7.5 billion on a new Bethesda or $70 billion on a new Activision Blizzard like Microsoft did? and then would have to spend another $300 million and 3-5 years on a new Cyberpunk 2077? Would there be enough Mac gamers to justify such costs? I don't think so if they would only want to develop for Mac. They rather help other studios develop for Mac than take all the risks themselves because they are already a trillion dollar company without focusing on gaming, especially when they're already making most money on mobile gaming, $8.5 billion from App store games, more than Sony, Activision, Nintendo, and Microsoft combined. If they only bought a smaller developer like Feral they wouldn't be able to develop or port so many games either.

They sold 22.6 million Macs in 2020. How many of those are used for gaming and how many more would they sell with Mac exclusive games?

#145 dr.zeissler

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 12:04 AM

It's not about apple making money it's simply about a strategic decision to not completely loose the gaming market.
Beside that, there is lot's and lot's of money available.
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#146 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 12:23 AM

This is such a big move that I am seriously reconsidering (again) my next upgrade. But I really want to stay on macOS, and only run with one machine.. Sigh... :( Geforce Now better stay available on Mac...
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#147 Wumpus

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 08:24 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 19 January 2022 - 12:23 AM, said:

This is such a big move that I am seriously reconsidering (again) my next upgrade. But I really want to stay on macOS, and only run with one machine.. Sigh... :( Geforce Now better stay available on Mac...

They have no reason not to support it. It also works on a browser. Don’t even need an app. But they update the mac app all the time. I would remain worry free.

I’m more curious about PC game pass getting a respectable browser version or Mac app. Then every notable PC game in existence would be streamable between that and GFN.
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#148 Homy

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 10:56 AM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 19 January 2022 - 12:04 AM, said:

It's not about apple making money it's simply about a strategic decision to not completely loose the gaming market.
Beside that, there is lot's and lot's of money available.

That may be your and my opinion but it's not Apple's. For them it's about profit. They have to answer to the shareholders if they lose big money. Again we may think they have lots of money but it's their money and they decide what's worth investing in and gaming is apparently not one them.

#149 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 11:03 AM

View PostWumpus, on 19 January 2022 - 08:24 AM, said:

They have no reason not to support it. It also works on a browser. Don’t even need an app. But they update the mac app all the time.
well, they are in it for the profit of course. I wonder how many Mac only streamers they have paying, and how the ratio of users on regular tier and their 1440p tier is compared to Windows users.
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#150 dr.zeissler

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 11:26 AM

View PostHomy, on 19 January 2022 - 10:56 AM, said:

... They have to answer to the shareholders if they lose big money. Again we may think they have lots of money but it's their money and they decide what's worth investing in and gaming is apparently not one them.

you should take a look on their balance sheets... i wrote "postage" and that's exactly what buying feral would have cost them...so I think they will close sometime or are buyout by someone else who shuts down ios at last, because the mac is already closed. they have not fixed any game. the controllers are mostly not working...apple statet, no problem to rebuild a fat binary on x86/arm...but nothing. 25% up to 50% of the new chips can not be used and performance is therefore not so good. It's a mess.
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#151 Matt Diamond

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 08:17 PM

If Apple had bought Feral they only would have sold it or shut it down by now, like most of their other Mac game initiatives.

I mean, I love Apple and all, but it's best to realize that games are not themselves a goal for Apple. Occasionally they've hired a game evangelist or put out a good library like GameSprockets, but it doesn't last. They just don't see it as a core business to invest in year after year, through ups and downs. (Apple has put some time & money into the games subscription service though, so that's an interesting exception.)

From Apple's point of view they are selling quite a lot of Macs, and a crap-ton of phones and iPads, so why chase after a niche gaming market that has never done all that well for them? And at best they would still lag behind PCs and consoles.

I'm getting sad thinking about it so I'm going to go play a Mac game for a while. (Maybe Chicory.)
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#152 Homy

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 08:28 PM

The Epic vs. Apple trial showed to some degree that Apple seems to have given up on Mac gaming.

25. “I think the lack of gaming (along with the lack of native productivity apps) are the main reason the Mac App Store is dormant,” wrote Tim Cook in 2015. Phil Schiller replied by suggesting Apple had already tried and failed with PC gaming — but his examples show he was completely wrong about having meaningfully tried. He cites BioShock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Call of Duty, and Assassin’s Creed as examples, but they’re all misleading: BioShock Infinite took five months to arrive on Mac in 2013 (not 2015), following every other major platform. Tomb Raider didn’t arrive until 2014, nearly a year after the game’s release. The Call of Duty games each took multiple years to port. And unless I’m mistaken, we haven’t seen a major Assassin’s Creed on Mac since Brotherhood in 2011 — which was months after consoles."

https://embed.docume...ng/#document/p1

"‘We and the major game developers have tried high-end gaming on the Mac, like the one this user is referring to, but have failed to generate any sizable business in that genre. The top PC game titles have all had previous versions of hot game titles on the Mac and in the App Store - Command and Conquer. Call of Duty. Tomb Raider. BioShock. Assassins Creed Right there are five of the top ten PC games of 2015. The last was BioShock from Aspyr Media. This past spring made their latest new title available: (Bio Shock Infinite $29.99) on the Mac and in the App Store. It gets very good store reviews but doesn't even chart in the top 200 best paid games on the store. The Sims is the one top 10 PC gaming title that does pretty well on Mac, and that isn't new it always has. We could have a section on the Mac App Store just for The Sims (and similar titles) and at least that could be built into something focused and pretty interesting."

#153 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted Yesterday, 04:07 AM

Personally I don't think the problem is the slight delay in AAA release schedules compared to Windows, I more believe that it is the clear lack of catering to the hardcore gamers. Long term delays, absolutely, but also the fact that you only have a subset of AAA games available, often a lack of modding tools or DLCs, and back in the days, lack of apps for audio communication. Hardcore gamers are definitely driving a large part of that market, and other than us old timers in here, there aren't really many on the Mac platform, because of the before mentioned reasons. Hardcore gamers finish a game a week, and then need their next fix, so you need a constant supply of varied AAA games. Then you need a community to get hyped with (DLCs, modding tools, forums that cater to your needs), and thus get your non-hardcore gamer friends to tag along. When the hardware for gaming is *really* expensive too, you are also limiting new comers.

It is really a snowball effect, and Apple have made this tiny 2" snowball, rolled it through 1 meter of 3 cm snow, and then wondered why they didn't end up with a snow man. In this case Phil has absolutely no idea what he is doing.

I fully get Apple Arcade, because it specifically doesn't cater to the hardcore gamers, but the casual crowd. It is a service, which Tim/shareholders love, and it is available on the largest platform out there, iOS, meaning a huge user base, and it was put there with limited effort from Apples side, and requiring minimum maintenance as long as you have 100+ indie games on the platform at all times - Something for everybody. But it sure isn't for me. The little time I have for gaming, I want to use on AAA's or awesome Indies. Not whatever-indie-Apple-could-get-a-deal-on.

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#154 Resecpaw

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Posted Yesterday, 04:43 AM

It's been clear for a long time.

#155 Homy

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Posted Yesterday, 09:53 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 20 January 2022 - 04:07 AM, said:

Hardcore gamers are definitely driving a large part of that market, and other than us old timers in here, there aren't really many on the Mac platform, because of the before mentioned reasons. Hardcore gamers finish a game a week, and then need their next fix, so you need a constant supply of varied AAA games.

You're right. I have 100+ hours in Deus Ex HR but started playing in the late 2020 and haven't finished it yet (very close to finish it on the last level). For me it takes several months at least to finish a game. :P

One thing that is different from 2015 is that at that time Apple had very low-end GPUs in their consumer Macs. This time M1 is better, even if it's not the best for high-end gaming.

#156 dr.zeissler

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Posted Yesterday, 12:51 PM

View PostHomy, on 19 January 2022 - 08:28 PM, said:

https://embed.docume...ng/#document/p1

"‘We and the major game developers have tried high-end gaming on the Mac, like the one this user is referring to, but have failed to generate any sizable business in that genre. The top PC game titles have all had previous versions of hot game titles on the Mac and in the App Store - Command and Conquer. Call of Duty. Tomb Raider. BioShock. Assassins Creed Right there are five of the top ten PC games of 2015. The last was BioShock from Aspyr Media. This past spring made their latest new title available: (Bio Shock Infinite $29.99) on the Mac and in the App Store. It gets very good store reviews but doesn't even chart in the top 200 best paid games on the store. The Sims is the one top 10 PC gaming title that does pretty well on Mac, and that isn't new it always has. We could have a section on the Mac App Store just for The Sims (and similar titles) and at least that could be built into something focused and pretty interesting."

Great reading and one VERY BIG FAILURE!!!!!

That was the PAST, the very major part of sold macs on integreated intel-gfx-chips that simply don't run AAA games even in the lowest settings and resolutions. the capable machines were much more expensive and the the mac sales are mostly low-end integrated chips.

there is simply no wonder that there is no market-share on AAA gaming on the mac.

But now even the chips in the entry class are very capable and this even on x86 code running translated on arm. so native arm should give additional 25-50% performance! that's why I call it a shame!

And the debate is also very wrong. it's not about the hardcore-gamers, it's about the gamers who want to play AAA titles and not arcade/shareware/freeware. don't mix up hardcore-gamers and AAA titles. There is simply NO! hardcore-gamer on the mac, not a single one.
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#157 the Battle Cat

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Posted Yesterday, 01:27 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 20 January 2022 - 04:07 AM, said:

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Give me a break!  It was shaped like a dog!!
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#158 Frost

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Posted Yesterday, 05:42 PM

View PostCougar, on 18 January 2022 - 09:59 AM, said:

From this Phil Spencer quote:

I really like Phil Spencer and had the opportunity to chat with him a few years ago regarding the future of Xbox, and he voiced a lot of outlandish opinions on where Xbox should go as a brand that would've been unthinkable to his predecessors (Xbox more as a service than just gaming consoles, "Xbox exclusive" meaning PC gamers too, personally apologizing for Games for Windows Live and saying the next PC offering was going to be a "real product not an afterthought that's assigned one programmer", just smiling when I said the Master Chief Collection on PC would be amazing), and yet he made them all happen in the years since.

I really wish we had someone like him at Apple. The gaming situation on Mac would probably be wildly different right now.

That being said, I really hate it when corporate execs and CNBC talking heads find a new buzzword. If I hear about some game changing "metaverse" one more time I'm going to shoot the person who says it.

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 20 January 2022 - 01:27 PM, said:

Give me a break!  It was shaped like a dog!!

You should've poked it with a stick. But not a sharp stick! Say, did I ever tell you about the time tBC and I were on All Roads Lead to Sol and found a Mother of All Hunters stuck under a platform?

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