95 replies to this topic

[Mister Mumbles]

Frost, on March 24th 2008, 11:26 PM, said:

Anyone know if Legend was ever ported to Mac?

Nope. It's the only TR game without a Mac port.

[bismilah]

on feral's site, I like the ad "Lara's back"
it has a double-meaning  

[Mr. Selvetarm]

bismilah, on April 1st 2008, 08:11 AM, said:

on feral's site, I like the ad "Lara's back"
it has a double-meaning  

I seem to be saying this a lot lately...hehehe

[mattw]

Any news if the PowerPC port is still coming?

[Frost]

Previously, on Gaming With Frost:

Frost, on March 25th 2008, 12:26 AM, said:

I'll be buying the PS2 version now that I know I like the game, and will buy the Mac version later in the year once it's available for PPC.

So, I'm guessing the Universal patch never came?  

[Janichsan]

Frost, on February 12th 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

So, I'm guessing the Universal patch never came?  

The PPC version was canceled not too long ago. I think there wasn't any news postings here on IMG on that, but the german Games4Mac reported that. (Caution! Crappy automated translation from the german original.)

[Frost]

Janichsan, on February 12th 2009, 06:16 AM, said:

The PPC version was canceled not too long ago. I think there wasn't any news postings here on IMG on that, but the german Games4Mac reported that. (Caution! Crappy automated translation from the german original.)

FEH. FAIL. Gads, it's not like TR:A is that taxing of a game, could probably even run respectably on some of the G4s (it runs on the PS2 for pete's sake.)

Oh well.

[edddeduck]

Frost, on February 12th 2009, 06:10 AM, said:

FEH. FAIL. Gads, it's not like TR:A is that taxing of a game, could probably even run respectably on some of the G4s (it runs on the PS2 for pete's sake.)

Oh well.

Oh if only you knew

It's very easy to point and say well it would easily run on G4's etc but things don't break down like that in the real world, reality can sometimes get in the way of assumed knowledge. I thought very similar to you when we first started the port but as I said it ain't that simple! If it was that easy to get it running on G4's & G5's we would! That is a massive market to miss out on, we only missed out because it was not feasible to rebuild the game for PPC processors.

Without getting into all the details, the game and the data both contain code that is compiled, this means the data is effected by both the CPU type and the compiler. The game accesses the data using exact addresses in the data. This means that if you modify the data in any way you have to fix all of the game code so it still points to the correct place. You then have an extra problem of byte order PPC reads left to right and X86 reads right to left and finally as some of the data is machine code not just data so a standard byte swap will not work so you end up with a X86 and a PPC data pak solution.

So you now have an idea of the basis of the problem, to get the PPC working you need to recompile all the data (and hope you have not made any bugs), you then have to edit every single data read in the entire game to make sure it loads the data correctly and you have to do all of this blind as you are editing the data and the game so if you have a bug it could be in either the game or the data so finding out which is wrong takes longer.

If you recompile the data all of your data reads need to be checked as any change in the data code means the compiled data will be a slightly different size and that means your pointers will be out etc...

The Intel version could use the unedited PC data which meant that was a lot simpler. Now we did have a look at if we could take the source code from a PPC based version (like the Wii) but that was so radically different to the PC version that again it was not really feasible as it would be more work than it took to port the entire Intel Mac version.

So to conclude I am sure it is possible to get a PPC version working but the amount of effort required was so high (not to mention the lower levels of GL support on PPC) we had to cut our losses at some point and move the effort onto other games like LEGO Indy, Pirates or Rome Total War. It's not something that we wanted to have to do but at some point you have to think do we keep on at this or do we spend the time on shipping LEGO Indy? After a while shipping other games like Indy & Pirates became more important.

Edwin

[Janichsan]

Frost, on February 12th 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

... (it runs on the PS2 for pete's sake.)

Not necessarily a feasible argument (even without Edwin's detailed explanation) since the PS2 versions of many recent games use pretty different engines compared to their PC counterparts. Then you would have to make a completely new port based on the PS2 version in addition to the Intel version based on the PC variant.

[edddeduck]

Janichsan, on February 12th 2009, 08:00 AM, said:

Not necessarily a feasible argument (even without Edwin's detailed explanation) since the PS2 versions of many recent games use pretty different engines compared to their PC counterparts. Then you would have to make a completely new port based on the PS2 version in addition to the Intel version based on the PC variant.

Yep that's all true! Thought I would also add points like the PS2 version will have low res textures etc as it is designed for a machine with 4MB of VRAM and only 32MB of system RAM makes a difference in the port. If we said "well the PPC mac version only plays at 720×480 and with low res textures (no graphics options at all)" then I think we would get less than favorable reviews!

As I said anything given enough time and money is usually possible but sometimes what looks easy is very hard, and sometimes what looks hard is very easy In this case making a working, playable and nicely performing game was not feasible within the timescale of a Mac port. As someone who only has PPC Mac's at home I understand the gripe about no PPC support but I can also hand on heart say that I was there on the inside from day one and it was not possible to do it.

All I can say is Sorry

Edwin

[Frost]

Gadzooks, sounds like that game was not made with platform portability in mind in the slightest.

Well Edwin, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain that, since responses from other devs thus far usually range from "..." to "lol no." I really wanted to run TR:A on my G5, but you're right, you're running a business over there and not a charity, and if it's flat out not feasible for you guys to do it, then it's not feasible.

Thanks for at least trying though and recognizing those of us with PPC machines capable of playing relatively recent games do exist and do still buy Mac games.

EDIT: Wait, there's still hope. Assuming I win the lottery tomorrow, how much would it cost to make it feasible for you guys to rebuild the game on PPC?

[charmin]

If you'd pay for the development, I'm sure Feral would be happy to get the PPC version running. Question is, is there no game you'd rather see if you were paying for the license and development?

[Frost]

charmin, on February 12th 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

If you'd pay for the development, I'm sure Feral would be happy to get the PPC version running. Question is, is there no game you'd rather see if you were paying for the license and development?

Heh, crap. If I a pile of money socked away I would SO fund Universal ports of Supreme Commander, Rome: Total War, Fallout 3, the last two Rainbow Six games, and TR:A for good measure.

[yo-mike]

Bummer. I knew this was going to happen, Edwin.
Guess I might just go for the Nintendo versions then.

I don't see why porting wasn't started ages ago for TR Legend on Mac anyway.
You guys could have at least managed TR Legend, couldn't you? By 2009!?!?!

[Frost]

Since I got the 7800GTX in and have been enjoying running pretty much every PPC game ever made at max settings at 1920x1200, now I REALLY wish I had TR:A.

[yo-mike]

edddeduck, on February 12th 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

Yep that's all true! Thought I would also add points like the PS2 version will have low res textures etc as it is designed for a machine with 4MB of VRAM and only 32MB of system RAM makes a difference in the port. If we said "well the PPC mac version only plays at 720×480 and with low res textures (no graphics options at all)" then I think we would get less than favorable reviews!

As I said anything given enough time and money is usually possible but sometimes what looks easy is very hard, and sometimes what looks hard is very easy In this case making a working, playable and nicely performing game was not feasible within the timescale of a Mac port. As someone who only has PPC Mac's at home I understand the gripe about no PPC support but I can also hand on heart say that I was there on the inside from day one and it was not possible to do it.

All I can say is Sorry


Edwin

Yeah, right.

And it takes you over a year and a half to finally manage to say this?
Why should we believe Feral Interactive was ever half even serious about porting TR: Anniversary to Power PC Macintosh, when you should have ported it first in the first place?

What platform has been out longer and who has more of which?
PowerPC or Intel?

Without a doubt, TR:Anniversary for Intel Macintosh, has the smallest OS and machine support available, from when it came out, to current. Compared to the original TRs.

That’s poor customer support on a large available platform, that was and still is available.

To sum it up; I find it hard to believe there was ever enough interest from Feral Interactive
to follow through and port TR: Anniversary to support the Macintosh Power PC architecture.

After a year and a half (More, I’m sure) you guys waited and waited and waited. Until finally it’s been over 3 years since the Intel Macintosh Architecture switch. Thus you figure the fire’s
gone out in us and we’ve bowed to the change and flushed our investments.

Well, a lot of us haven’t. An I have basically all the Power PC TRs.


So, what’s up?  Why isn’t there a story about this revelation on IMG for Pete’s sake!?

Instead, you wait to be prodded by IMG forum members to break the news with all of your way late excuses and analogies to the vastly impossible porting job.

What did you do with all the year and a half of porting PPC work? If there was any at all?

I can surely empathize with how the Core Design team felt when they got duped by Eidos in favor of Crystal Dynamics.


-Mike

[Frost]

You know, while yo-mike is a little harsh there, he does have a very good point... this is something that should've been in a press release or at least a note on the site a long time ago rather than just leaving us hanging.

[dr.zeissler]

i bought a xbox360-controller and want to use it with tombraider-anniversary. i expected it to run as good as it does with halo; it is just perfect there, but there must be a bug at the gamepad-support within TRA. if i turn on gamepad i can walk a view seconds and then lara begins to turn round in circles and never stops.

it is imposible to play the game if lara turns round in circels so i need to turn of the x/y-axis-support, but if i disable it, i am not able to play the game with the pad alone and therefore i don't use it anymore.

I have bought another no-name-gamepad and the effect is the same, turning round in circles without stopping.

what can i do to fix this issue ?

Thank a lot
Doc

[edddeduck]

dr.zeissler, on May 25th 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

i bought a xbox360-controller and want to use it with tombraider-anniversary. i expected it to run as good as it does with halo; it is just perfect there, but there must be a bug at the gamepad-support within TRA. if i turn on gamepad i can walk a view seconds and then lara begins to turn round in circles and never stops.

it is imposible to play the game if lara turns round in circels so i need to turn of the x/y-axis-support, but if i disable it, i am not able to play the game with the pad alone and therefore i don't use it anymore.

I have bought another no-name-gamepad and the effect is the same, turning round in circles without stopping.

what can i do to fix this issue ?

Thank a lot
Doc

pm me or email support and we will have a look,

Edwin

[dr.zeissler]

edddeduck, on May 27th 2009, 02:36 PM, said:

pm me or email support and we will have a look,

Edwin

hi and thanks edwin!

another person also reported the same problem with the xbox360 controller as i do.
could it be possible that my xbox360-controller and my no-name controller both have the same issues that other gamepads don't have ?

it is quite clear that feral cannot fix an issue that lies in the driver of the xbox360 controller,
but i am confused that halo just works fine using every option of the xbox360 controller.
http://tattiebogle.n...oller/OsxDriver

lordimac;4045074 said:

3 Monate her und kein Bericht?
Ich habe mir vorgestern einen XBOX 360 Controller zugelegt und lasse ihn momentan mit dem Treiber von Tattiebogle laufen, jedoch hab ich diverse Probleme. In JamminRacer funktioniert z.B. alles wunderbar, jedoch spinnt es in anderen Games.

Bei Tomb Raider Anniversary z.B. dreht sich Lara permanent im Kreis, ein spielen ist dadurch unmöglich. Bei Colin McRae Rally lässt sich der Controller nciht rictig konfigurieren (ich komme bis zum Vibrieren, doch danach crasht das Spiel) und ohne konfigurieren lässt sich der Controller zwar im Menu benutzen, jedoch reagiert er im Rennen anschliessend nicht.

Find es im allgemeinen schade das es kaum kompatible Controller für den Mac gibt. Die Logitech Teile kann man teilweise vergessen, so ist der Rumbling 2 nicht voll Mac kompatibel (keine Vibrationen) und hat auch keine analogen LT und RT Tasten (die für den Zeigefinger).

Alles in allem wäre eine volle Unterstützung des XBOX 360 Controllers die optimalste Lösung, aber obs das jemals geben wird? Ich jedenfalls schliesse jetzt für Lara wieder meine Maus ans MacBook Pro an ...

hmm, difficult.