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Mac Gaming is Dead™ – 2021 Edition

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#21 Janichsan

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 12:44 PM

View Postnick68k, on 01 April 2021 - 12:09 PM, said:

Bethesda has never been Mac-friendly.
That reminds of something I wanted to mention in my original post as well: several studios who had supported the Mac in the past have now been bought up by Microsoft to deliver games exclusively for Microsoft's platforms. This includes Obsidian, inXile, and Bethesda. If the latter haven't been particularly Mac friendly in the past, the likelyhood of them to support it now is zero.

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#22 Matt Diamond

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 07:13 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 01 April 2021 - 12:35 PM, said:

Sure, but Hades might as well be the last SuperGiant title that will be available for the Mac. Why? Because that guy ported all of them.
I have a hard time taking that situation seriously. Did Ethan port the games out of the goodness of his heart? No, THEY asked HIM to do it, and he was paid. If Humble and/or SuperGiant wants Mac ports at all then they'll look for someone else.

He is even more replaceable for a Unity title like Superliminal.

View PostJanichsan, on 01 April 2021 - 12:44 PM, said:

several studios who had supported the Mac in the past have now been bought up by Microsoft to deliver games exclusively for Microsoft's platforms. This includes Obsidian, inXile, and Bethesda. If the latter haven't been particularly Mac friendly in the past, the likelyhood of them to support it now is zero.

OTOH MS bought Double Fine, and Psychonauts 2 is still planned for Mac, last we heard. (fingers crossed)
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#23 Cougar

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 07:39 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 01 April 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

OTOH MS bought Double Fine, and Psychonauts 2 is still planned for Mac, last we heard. (fingers crossed)

Yes, that's just because it was crowdfunded with a Mac version promised. Just like Wasteland 3.

#24 Janichsan

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 04:10 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 01 April 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

I have a hard time taking that situation seriously. Did Ethan port the games out of the goodness of his heart? No, THEY asked HIM to do it, and he was paid. If Humble and/or SuperGiant wants Mac ports at all then they'll look for someone else.
I'm not going to claim this couldn't happen in any case, but programmers with the necessary expertise to port Windows games to the Mac are a rare breed, especially when it comes to these smaller scale indie projects.

Ports of indie games with custom engines always seem to fall into the hands of a very small group of programmers: Ryan Gordon being one, Ethan Lee being another. There's a reason why he was hired for so many ports.

Quote

OTOH MS bought Double Fine, and Psychonauts 2 is still planned for Mac, last we heard. (fingers crossed)
Yes, but as Cougar already pointed out, they are just allowed to fulfill previous promises or obligations. Same with Bethesda/Zenimax: they will fulfill their contracts with Sony to deliver their two announced PS exclusive games, and they will continue to support ESO on other platforms, but anything beyond that will be Microsoft exclusive.

EDIT:

View PostMatt Diamond, on 01 April 2021 - 07:13 PM, said:

He is even more replaceable for a Unity title like Superliminal.
Also, in this context here, I think you are overestimating what Unity does. It doesn't do any platform specific optimisations, and it doesn't take over of the bureaucratic extra steps Apple requires you to do, like packaging, code signing or notarising. All of this requires at least some knowledge of the target platform. Using Unity makes a couple of things easier when you aim to go multiplatform, but it's not an effortless endeavour.

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#25 galad

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 07:01 AM

Unity can properly package and sign a macOS app, and has tools to help with notarisation too.
Anyway, signing and notarising are not rocket science.

#26 dr.zeissler

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 12:03 PM

Is there any AAA title that is native ARM64 ?
I was so exited when M1 came out. Shared graphics never were that powerful...but without the software...it's a shame.
Apple if you read this. Give feral and valve each 25 Mio USD to get the AAA-Titles to native ARM64 with working controller support!
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#27 nick68k

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 12:11 PM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 02 April 2021 - 12:03 PM, said:

Is there any AAA title that is native ARM64 ?

World of Warcraft, if that counts
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#28 dr.zeissler

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 12:14 PM

Might be an AAA-Title, but I prefer Singleplayer-Offline. But that is only my preference...
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#29 Matt Diamond

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Posted 02 April 2021 - 07:40 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 02 April 2021 - 04:10 AM, said:

I think you are overestimating what Unity does. .. Using Unity makes a couple of things easier when you aim to go multiplatform, but it's not an effortless endeavour.

If by a couple things you mean 80-90% of the game, then I agree.

Going multiplatform with a Unity game DOES require significant effort, both to develop and support. It just doesn't require Ethan Lane.
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#30 Homy

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Posted 05 April 2021 - 10:19 AM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 02 April 2021 - 12:03 PM, said:

Is there any AAA title that is native ARM64 ?

Don't know about AAA but there are some like Asphalt 8, Disco Asylum and WoW. https://www.macgamer...#ftoc-heading-2
There are a few others you can check out at https://doesitarm.com/.

#31 MichalM.Mac

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 05:04 AM

I used to laugh on people for saying "Mac Gaming is Dead™". They usually had not clue about Mac games and were only scratching the surface. Now I am also saying "Mac Gaming is Dead™" :crying:

I wrote Mac games reviews for about 7 years (2010-2017). I stopped doing that mostly for personal reasons but number of big titles coming to Mac went into decline so it was also a factor in my decision. Now, my friend who took over the review section is about to quit as well. We are working on one last piece called "Rises and falls of Mac gaming".

We agree with some posts in this thread. Things are likely going to improve few years into Apple Silicon transition. Mac gaming is alway going up or down. macOS is never going to be on par with gaming platforms like consoles or Windows but it could be decent secondary platform with a lot of great games. To do that Apple would have to care about games. From observing Apple for last 10 years we can say one thing: "Apple doesn't care".

#32 dr.zeissler

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 06:25 AM

Therefore they shown Tombraider and BaldursGate at the M1-Release ? That does not make sense at all...
Apple thought, this will convince the porting-firms to work on m1 ...but we knew how it went out... they simple IGNORE M1 and tell us to play via rosetta2 for that small amount of AAA titles that went through the 64Bit apocalypse...

Apple should have put some marketing-budget into it....hopefully they will do that someday...

one new thing I recognized is the 68K/PPC-Port of HL1 back in 1998...it was done (PPC with decent frame-rates) but it was never released. Interesting story.
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#33 Brad Oliver

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 11:02 PM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 02 April 2021 - 12:03 PM, said:

Is there any AAA title that is native ARM64 ?
I was so exited when M1 came out. Shared graphics never were that powerful...but without the software...it's a shame.
Apple if you read this. Give feral and valve each 25 Mio USD to get the AAA-Titles to native ARM64 with working controller support!

Worth pointing out that the holdup here mainly centers around third parties: no native Steamworks, no native middlware libraries, etc. Until that situation settles, M1-native ports will be hit and miss. Rome Remastered will be M1-native, but only on the Mac App Store because Steamworks (and Steam) are still not set up for M1 support.
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#34 jeannot

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 12:34 AM

View PostBrad Oliver, on 08 April 2021 - 11:02 PM, said:

Worth pointing out that the holdup here mainly centers around third parties: no native Steamworks, no native middlware libraries, etc. Until that situation settles, M1-native ports will be hit and miss. Rome Remastered will be M1-native, but only on the Mac App Store because Steamworks (and Steam) are still not set up for M1 support.
Does steam itself have to be universal? It's on a different process.

#35 Brad Oliver

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Posted 09 April 2021 - 01:12 AM

View Postjeannot, on 09 April 2021 - 12:34 AM, said:

Does steam itself have to be universal? It's on a different process.

I'm not sure. How deeply Steamworks communicates with Steam is not something I know much about. Maybe you can have XPC shenanigans between Rosetta apps and M1-native just fine...?
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#36 nick68k

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 07:41 AM

Article by Dan Moren in Macworld today - Apple is running out of chances to get gaming right.
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#37 ipickert55

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 12:29 AM

Sad news to come back to after being away for so long. Guess I'll still hope for the best.

#38 nick68k

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 10:44 AM

View Postipickert55, on 21 April 2021 - 12:29 AM, said:

Sad news to come back to after being away for so long. Guess I'll still hope for the best.

Ah, I suspect it'll all work out, somehow (and eventually). It'd be wrong to categorise Mac gaming as a 'feast or famine' situation - more like 'slightly less famine or famine' - but experience shows these things tend to be cyclical, to a degree. But I'm still mad with Blizzard (although isn't everyone these days?).
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#39 ipickert55

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 12:18 PM

View Postnick68k, on 21 April 2021 - 10:44 AM, said:

Ah, I suspect it'll all work out, somehow (and eventually). It'd be wrong to categorise Mac gaming as a 'feast or famine' situation - more like 'slightly less famine or famine' - but experience shows these things tend to be cyclical, to a degree. But I'm still mad with Blizzard (although isn't everyone these days?).

That's a fair point. I'm sure things will at least slightly recover in a few years maybe. Honestly Blizzard isn't the most bothering thing for me, ill always not like them for several reasons. it's more Aspyr seemingly pretending they don't even know what a Mac is, and feral shifting to the more profitable porting operations on switch and mobile and such. Maybe that's just because I've been playing their games since I was a kid, I dunno. It felt like those two were the last bastions, especially feral, and so to see them slipping is concerning.

#40 Matt Diamond

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Posted 21 April 2021 - 02:05 PM

There is support at the Indie level, and that will never go away, especially as long as the Unreal engine and/or Unity still support Mac. But there is little interest from the big publishers, and we've lost most of the porting houses that used to twist arms to license Mac ports.

I don't think we've seen the last of Feral; maybe they are playing it slow while they wait for the AS Mac lineup to reach its final state.

(How the heck did we get Borderlands 3?! The more time passes the weirder that seems to me.)
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