10 replies to this topic

[ozzy]

Hi all,

I just posted this over at eGPU.io but figured some of you might find it interesting as well. Quick highlights include the fact that in Metal games, OS X is now just as fast as Windows 10, and the fact that an eGPU makes a 2012 Mac almost as fast as a 2018 Mac (with the same eGPU).

I just switched from an Nvidia 1070 eGPU to an AMD Vega 56 eGPU. This was primarily because a few applications I needed to use required 10.14 now, and the Nvidia eGPU won&rsquo]I decided to take advantage of this chance to do a bunch of benchmarking across graphics cards, OS (both Mac vs. Windows and different Mac versions), and computers.

For reference, here is what I tested with:

• 2012 MBP 15” Retina with 8 GB RAM, 650m, and 2.6 Ghz quad-core i7 processor, and thunderbolt 1
  
• 2018 MBP 13” with 16 GB RAM, 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, and 2.7 GHz quad-core i7 processor
  
• Akitio Node
  
• nVidia 1070 8gb
  
• Sapphire Pulse Radeon Rx Vega 56 8gb
  
• Windows 10
  
• Mac OS 10.13.6 (2012 MBP only)
  
• Mac OS 10.14.4 (2012 MBP and 2018 MBP)
  
• Games and benchmarks used are Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Total War: Warhammer, Total War: Warhammer II, and the Unigine Heaven benchmark. Resolution and settings noted in the benchmark name

Some high-level take-aways, and then the more detailed charts and full detail provided below:[/font][/color]

• On the 2012 MBP, In 10.13.6 the Vega 56 is 35-60% FASTER than the 1070 across 3 different metal games; in Heaven benchmark Vega 56 is 20% SLOWER though. This is likely due to AMD drivers
  
• On the 2012 MBP, 10.14.4 is generally about 2-6% faster than 10.13.6 on the Vega 56 (with one outlier, where it is 6% slower)
  
• In 10.14.4 and using the Vega 56, the 2018 MBP is faster. How much depends on the game (RotTR only 5% faster; other games 10-60% faster, with TW:W II being the biggest difference, likely due to the CPU complexity of the large-scale battle scenes)
  
• Windows is faster than 10.13.6 on the 2012 MBP with Nvidia 1070. How much depends (Heaven is ~5-10%, RotTR and TW:W are 15-20%, and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is 50-70% faster)
  
• In Windows 10, the Vega 56 is faster than the 1070 in Heaven, RotTR, TW: Warhammer 1, and TW: Warhammer 2 (battle benchmark is close, campaign shows the same 20-30% advantage over the 1070), and gets crushed by the 1070 in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
  
• OS X is equal or faster than Windows with Metal games   . My Vega 56 in 10.14.4 is faster than my 1070 in Windows 10 on the same computer in virtually every benchmark (equal in one). And the Vega 56 in 10.14.4 is virtually equal to the Vega 56 in Windows 10 on the same computer (faster in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, equal in RotTR, TW: Warhammer 1, and TW: Warhammer 2). OS X would likely be much slower in Heaven if I could get it to launch in 10.14.4, but that is OpenGL

Two other notes::

• For some reason I wrote down the TW Warhammer 1 benchmark on 10.13.6 at 1440p with the 1070 incorrectly. Too late to go back and re-test that, so that comparison is blank
  
• The heaven benchmark crashes on launch with my 2012 MBP once I upgraded to 10.14.4. No idea why, and I restarted and re-installed it, but still no go
  
• There is definitely something weird going on in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided on Windows 10 with the Vega 56 - it's a big outlier compared to every other benchmark, and 1080p is no faster than 1440p

1070 vs. Vega 56 in 10.13.6 on the 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


10.14.4 vs. 10.13.6 with Vega 56 on the 2012 15" Retina MBA with Thunderbolt 1


2018 13" MBP with Thunderbolt 3 vs. 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1 in 10.14.4 with Vega 56

[ozzy]

​Windows 10 vs. 10.13.6 with Nvidia 1070 in 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


1070 vs. Vega 56 in Windows 10 with 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


10.14.4 Vega 56 vs. Windows 10 1070 and Vega 56 with 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


I can't figure out how to get he actual results to show any better when I'm copying and pasting from excel. If anyone has any ideas let me know! Here is the full text dump:
Computer Graphics Card OS Game Resolution Avg Min Max 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Heaven Ultra 1080p 68.7 23.2 131.3 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Heaven Ultra 1440p 44.4 19.3 84.9 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 59.51 7.81 131.22 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 49.06 6 130.38 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 44.1 34 55 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 38.4 29 46 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 Ultra 1440p 29.4 24 36 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1080p 29.9 24 37 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1440p 25.6 21 31 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1080p 41.1 29 50 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1440p 34.3 25 42 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 42.4 26.4 67.6 2012 MBP 1070 Windows 10 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 37.8 25.8 50.5 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Heaven Ultra 1080p 63.9 8.8 129 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Heaven Ultra 1440p 41.7 8.3 78.4 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 51.36 6.5 121.96 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 41.67 5.13 140.3 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 39 31 48 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 30 40 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 27.8 3.7 44.2 2012 MBP 1070 OS X 10.13.6 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 22.5 16.7 34.1 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Heaven Ultra 1080p 95.7 9.3 148.9 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Heaven Ultra 1440p 60.3 23.7 106.7 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 67.43 25.83 152.78 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 60.48 12.22 138.85 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 54.2 34 87 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 49.1 29 72 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer 1 Ultra 1440p 36.8 22 53 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1080p 31.5 21 48 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1440p 27 20 38 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Battle Ultra 1440p 24 10 42 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1080p 51 36 67 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1440p 42.2 29 59 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 TW: Warhammer II Campaign Ultra 1440p 34.7 25 49 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 26.7 15.3 44.8 2012 MBP Vega 56 Windows 10 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 26.5 10.7 43.7 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Heaven Ultra 1080p 50.3 8.3 89.3 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Heaven Ultra 1440p 34.4 7.7 62.3 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 71.06 6.57 169.45 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 57.46 4.65 151.59 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 52.6 43 65 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 46.7 38 57 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 44.4 29.4 64.4 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.13.6 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 35.9 24.8 49.5 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Heaven Ultra 1080p 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Heaven Ultra 1440p 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 66.95 10.11 176.96 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 60.7 4.69 149.14 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 54.6 38 63 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 48.5 26 58 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 Ultra 1440p 37.8 0 46 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1080p 32.7 26 42 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1440p 27.1 21 36 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle Ultra 1440p 24.4 16 36 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1080p 44.9 34 54 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1440p 42.9 36 51 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign Ultra 1440p 33.2 19 39 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 45.3 29.7 67.3 2012 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 36.9 26.1 49.3 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Heaven Ultra 1080p 59.8 13.7 78.7 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Heaven Ultra 1440p 45.5 12.9 65 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1080p 69.63 11.83 165.28 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Rise of the Tomb Raider Very High 1440p 63.94 3.12 178.75 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1080p 63 59 97 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 High 1440p 60.9 52 75 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer 1 Ultra 1440p 53.3 43 60 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1080p 52.9 43 65 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle High 1440p 40.2 32 50 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Battle Ultra 1440p 33.1 26 43 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1080p 60.7 55 70 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign High 1440p 55.5 41 71 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 TW: Warhammer II Campaign Ultra 1440p 43.2 37 52 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1080p 51 34.8 60.7 2018 MBP Vega 56 OS X 10.14.4 Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Very High 1440p 40.2 13.1 55.8

[nick68k]

Good stuff ozzy, thanks!

[jeannot]

Interesting but the screenshots are way too small. I can hardly read the numbers.

[ozzy]

Hmm - you're right. I tried to double the size of the pictures and upload them somewhere else. Let's see if this helps. I can't edit the original post, but if any of the mod's want to replace the image links in the original post feel free!

1070 vs. Vega 56 in 10.13.6 on the 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


10.14.4 vs. 10.13.6 with Vega 56 on the 2012 15" Retina MBA with Thunderbolt 1


2018 13" MBP with Thunderbolt 3 vs. 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1 in 10.14.4 with Vega 56

[ozzy]

Windows 10 vs. 10.13.6 with Nvidia 1070 in 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1


1070 vs. Vega 56 in Windows 10 with 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1



10.14.4 Vega 56 vs. Windows 10 1070 and Vega 56 with 2012 15" MBP Retina with Thunderbolt 1

[jeannot]

Thanks. I'm mostly interested in the macOS vs Windows results on the same hardware. They are very close and I suspect a bug with Deus Ex on Windows since it's the only game for which the Vega runs more slowly than the GTX.
The Vega Metal drivers appear quite good. On my radeon 580 iMac, Window is 0-15% faster than macOS on Metal games.

[ozzy]

Agreed - Metal AMD drivers seem to be just about on-par with Windows DirectX 12. An impressive feat considering our old OpenGL days. And agreed on Deus Ex - something of a weird anomaly in Windows 10 on AMD, wouldn't read too much into it.

I also love that my 7 year old MBP only lags behind a 1 year old MBP by 5-15% on Deus Ex and RotTR, and 20-30% on TW: Warhammer series (likely a bit more CPU and potentially thunderbolt bandwidth related).

[jeannot]

Yeah, I missed the fact that the 2012 MBP is thunderbolt 1. That may severely limit game performance. The disparity between OSes might be higher with internal GPUs.

[ozzy]

The disparity could be bigger. I think it definitely depends on the game though.

For instance, on the 2018 MBP with Thunderbolt 3 Total War: Warhammer 2 performs ~30% higher than the 2012 MBP with Thunderbolt 1 in campaign benchmarks, and 35-60% better in the battle benchmark. My guess is that this is more CPU and bandwidth bottle-necked because of all the individual units on the battle scenes, the physics, etc. However, in Rise of the Tomb Raider, the difference between the 2018 MBP and 2012 MBP is 5%, and in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, it is 10-15%.

This benchmarking shows the difference between running the same Radeon 580 video card at different PCIe bandwidths, and over Thunderbolt 3, and that Thunderbolt 3 has some compression loss even over bandwidth constrained PCIe. Depends on the benchmark again, but RotTR loses only 3-5%, whereas Shadow of Mordor loses more like 18% over Thunderbolt 3.

I tried seeing if I could get an actual PC comparison with the Vega 56 for Windows on RotTR to see what the difference is. They are a bit all over the map though. These all claim to use very high settings at 1440p, but here are the results:

• My 2012 MBP with Thunderbolt 1 (Mac): 60.7 FPS
  
• My 2012 MBP with Thunderbolt 1 (Windows): 60.5 FPS
  
• My 2018 MBP with Thunderbolt 3 (Mac): 63.9 FPS
  
• Tomshardware.com: 49.8 FPS
  
• Guru3d.com: 75 FPS
  
• Eurogamer.net: 81.5 FPS

So hard to say - conclusively whether there would be a bigger difference Mac vs. Windows with Thunderbolt 3. There is definitely a 15-20% performance drop generally with an eGPU vs. the same card internally. I actually don't think the bandwidth of Thunderbolt 1 vs. Thunderbolt 3 hampers it too much though given the tests linked using PCIe - bandwidth isn't a huge driving factor - as long as you are using an external monitor hooked directly to the eGPU. If you are trying to pipe back to the internal laptop monitor, then Thunderbolt 3 would crush Thunderbolt 1.

[Matt Diamond]

Thought I'd add some benchmarks for my Mac Mini 2018 (i7, 16 G RAM, eGPU w Radeon Vega 56).

Spreadsheet shows results from running the built-in benchmarks for Deus Ex Mankind Divided; and Rise of the Tomb Raider
(each TR run includes 3 separate scenes, hence three rows per run.)
Comments:

• DX runs acceptably IMO with "Very High" preset at 1920x1080. I didn't like the occasional lag I saw without VSync, which is why triple buffer is used for all these runs. I didn't notice any obvious visual difference between Very High and Ultra, frankly.
  
  • Worth pointing out that when I played the previous DX my FPS were probably significantly worse than this, at much lower resolution. I won't let these numbers bother me, I'll probably just turn the res down a little more.
• TR was disappointing at the highest resolution & highest preset. Stepping the resolution and AA down (but not the preset) helped. Even those numbers don't look great but the averages are well above DX averages-- I think the performance seemed smoother to me than the numbers might suggest. (Maybe framerates dipped once or twice at the start, and were otherwise good?)

Subjective notes for the following:

• Total War: Warhammer II: I played a quest map battle at the highest settings, moved the camera all around and zoomed in and out. Felt very smooth.
  
• Overload: played a challenge map against bots at the highest settings, 2560x1440. Seemed very smooth.
  
• Borderlands 2: very smooth at the highest settings & res. Levels load in only a few seconds now, much faster than my old machine.