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HOI CORE (V.90): Soviet Union


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#1 dojoboy

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 09:50 PM

VP forums are still down, due to a hack job on phpbb.  And since Morrigan has an SU game under way, I thought I'd post some information on my current game as the Soviet Union, using CORE v.90 w/ 1.06c.

A few days ago, I started up a CORE game as the Soviets and found myself backpedaling early into "Operation Barbarossa" (Germany's invasion of the USSR in WWII).  I shelved that game, going to save it for play later.  Mainly because I feel I misplayed the early years of the Road to War scenario.  I started up a new game, same set-up.

In this game, I focused early on teching up key areas: infantry, land doctrines, artillery, and other areas that provide org increases, as well as attack/defense increases.  Then, at the start of 1939, I began training uber infantry.

For comparison, in the first SU game: (as of July 28, 1941 with war declared on April 4, 1941)

*Germany -> 174 divisions (102 infantry, 33 motorized, & 37 armoured, plus others)
*USSR -> 240 divisions (206 infantry, 14 motorized, & 11 armoured, plus others)
Note:  My early infantry in this game were of poor quality.


Current SU game: (as of May 27, 1941 with war undeclared)

*Germany -> 121 divisions (71 infantry, 21 motorized, & 24 armoured, plus others)
*USSR -> 300 divisions (291 infantry plus another 9 divisions of various specialties)


Now, in this game, fate has smiled on me to some degree because Germany is less prepared for war than they were in the first game.  And, I am much more prepared, I feel.

Image #1 -> Border between Germany and the SU.  My direct plan is to head due west with the stack of infantry to the south.  With my other forces, I intend to tie up German divisions at the borders, so they cannot retreat south to stymie my offensive.  If things go well, and with more infantry in training, I may be able to turn north and encircle the majority of Germany's army.  If it ever shows up.  The German border provinces are severely undermanned atm.  Germany is currently trying to subdue Norway.  Perhaps, I should go NOW!  The decision to go to war is never easy. ;)

Image #2 -> If I'm forced on my heals, I've constructed an array of land fortifications, many to level 6.  In the north and the south, I've left unfortified a corridor for German forces to fill.  Ideally, this would then allow me to pinch each corridor off with divsions lying in wait.  Although this would be exciting, I'd much rather route Germany in their homeland, saving the good Slavic peoples of Russia any hardship.  ;)
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#2 Rubel

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 10:30 PM

Wow, this planning and presentation makes HoI (which of all the Paradox games always overwhelmed me the most) seem manageable and fun. Looking forward to hearing how you stick it to them, dojo!
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#3 Morrigan

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 10:11 AM

Nice report dojoboy! I can't imagine the germans will make much of a dent in you when/if they declare war.

I've started my game over yet again. I got CORE v90 installed and working so figured I'd go with a new game on the latest mod. I've played it a bit lazy as the SU, OK-ing the first couple of 5-year plans to upgrade ICs. I've annexed all of the Baltic states and taken my share of Poland. Germany is currently beating on France.

My defensive setup is much less organized than yours, restarting the same scenario 3 times in a week has made me a bit impatient and sloppy. I am putting level 3 forts on the (Don?) river line as you have but with no cul de sacs :) I'll be using the polish and baltic territories as buffers to slow down the germans, I don't plan on stopping them at the border as I don't really have the infantry for that yet. I'll try to post some screen shots once war breaks out.

#4 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 10:39 AM

Quote

German / Soviet Union border
[Edit - had to give dial up users a break on this one - tBC]

Dial up?  Barbarians!!!   ;)
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#5 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 12:22 PM

Morrigan, on April 6th 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

Nice report dojoboy! I can't imagine the germans will make much of a dent in you when/if they declare war.

I've started my game over yet again. I got CORE v90 installed and working so figured I'd go with a new game on the latest mod. I've played it a bit lazy as the SU, OK-ing the first couple of 5-year plans to upgrade ICs. I've annexed all of the Baltic states and taken my share of Poland. Germany is currently beating on France.

My defensive setup is much less organized than yours, restarting the same scenario 3 times in a week has made me a bit impatient and sloppy. I am putting level 3 forts on the (Don?) river line as you have but with no cul de sacs :) I'll be using the polish and baltic territories as buffers to slow down the germans, I don't plan on stopping them at the border as I don't really have the infantry for that yet. I'll try to post some screen shots once war breaks out.

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I'm curious as to how you make out.  

I accepted all of the 5-year plans to upgrade IC's and upgraded IC's in other provinces as well.  This is new for me, since we last covered this, but I was reading where someone recommended having 650 IC's as the SU to defeat Germany.  That may be unnecessary, but I figured I'd try getting as much as I can.  Unfortunately, annexing Finland doesn't lead to a large increase.  Improving infrastructure is the only real option.  

There is also an event in CORE where Stalin "removes" a minister and his assistant.  I accepted it, but next time I may not.  The cursor doesn't show this, but by taking the historical route, the unrest increases and lowers your IC output.  It's a dirty trick.  They should at least give us the facts.  Choosing not to "remove" the minister has no consequences in the pop-up box, but it may also increase unrest to some degree, maybe more.  ???

I hope to play a good bit this evening.  I'm itching to DOW Germany while their border is undermanned, but I don't want the increase in unrest.  Hitler better stab me in the back soon.  ;)
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#6 BadgerHunter

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 12:40 PM

I'm trying essentially the same thing you guys are again. In a previous game I spent almost all my time researching the best tanks I could get. Unfortunately this meant Hitler had finished with the western war and quickly turned his attention to my border.

My final mistake was attacking and trying to reduce the length of my defensive line quickly. By the time my heavy tanks were ready for action my line was broken north and south.

#7 Morrigan

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 01:11 PM

dojoboy, on April 6th 2005, 12:22 PM, said:

I'm curious as to how you make out. 

I accepted all of the 5-year plans to upgrade IC's and upgraded IC's in other provinces as well.  This is new for me, since we last covered this, but I was reading where someone recommended having 650 IC's as the SU to defeat Germany.  That may be unnecessary, but I figured I'd try getting as much as I can.  Unfortunately, annexing Finland doesn't lead to a large increase.  Improving infrastructure is the only real option.

There is also an event in CORE where Stalin "removes" a minister and his assistant.  I accepted it, but next time I may not.  The cursor doesn't show this, but by taking the historical route, the unrest increases and lowers your IC output.  It's a dirty trick.  They should at least give us the facts.  Choosing not to "remove" the minister has no consequences in the pop-up box, but it may also increase unrest to some degree, maybe more.  ???
In my SU games I have been annexing Afghanistan and the Baltic states, asking Finland to Ally with me, and developing my ICs. The war with Afghanistan hurts your dissent, but there are a couple of events that give you a good 10% back later. I always choose the officer purges or else my Dissent goes sky high. Also I never install that minister you were talking about. Passing on that historic option means you don't take a Dissent hit at all.

Due to my constant CORE upgrading and various bugs etc, I've yet to fight germany as SU from a position of defender. The one SU game where I did fight I ended up DoW'ing germany because they were bogged down in France still in late 1941 and had no border guard to speak of. Berlin fell mighty fast to my T-34/85s. I'm hoping to be more of a historical SU this game, going to see if i can get Germany to come play on the steppes :)

#8 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 02:05 PM

BadgerHunter, on April 6th 2005, 01:40 PM, said:

I'm trying essentially the same thing you guys are again. In a previous game I spent almost all my time researching the best tanks I could get. Unfortunately this meant Hitler had finished with the western war and quickly turned his attention to my border.

My final mistake was attacking and trying to reduce the length of my defensive line quickly. By the time my heavy tanks were ready for action my line was broken north and south.

View Post


Everything I read says not to retreat when Germany begins annihilating your infantry, after tac bombing your org levels first, but to stand and fight.  I don't see how it can be done, but the idea is to make Germany pay upfront by having to use their limited manpower on reinforcements rather than fresh divisions.  I guess it takes a little faith.

Like you, I lose my nerve when my men are routed.  Considering this is what really took place, my hat is off to the Russians for never cracking and for staying the course.  I just need to realize it's a game.   ;)
"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#9 BadgerHunter

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 04:13 PM

dojoboy, on April 6th 2005, 02:05 PM, said:

Everything I read says not to retreat when Germany begins annihilating your infantry, after tac bombing your org levels first, but to stand and fight.  I don't see how it can be done, but the idea is to make Germany pay upfront by having to use their limited manpower on reinforcements rather than fresh divisions.  I guess it takes a little faith.

Like you, I lose my nerve when my men are routed.  Considering this is what really took place, my hat is off to the Russians for never cracking and for staying the course.  I just need to realize it's a game.   ;)

View Post


I suppose thats possible if you can leave while germany's many, many motorized divisions are bogged down annihilating your infantry.

One thing thats troubling me is Russia's poor tanks. It takes a significant chunk of time just to get to medium tanks. Just how effective are medium/light tanks against mot/armor?

#10 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 05:41 PM

I threw caution to the wind and declared war on Germany on July 9, 1941.  I did get a 10% increase in dissent for declaring war on Germany. :(  On the same day, Romania accepted my invitation to join the Comintern.  I hope this prevents Germany from receiving the historical oil shipments from Romania.  Later that month, I accepted the scripted event to invade Perisa along with the UK.  Also, In September, I was able to convince Turkey and Sweden to join the Comintern.   :D   Even though they were aligned with the Allies, I believe their proximity to Germany's aggression swayed them to my side.

Now, I do intend to go back and play the scenario through from the point before I DOW'ed Germany as well.  But first,...

After giving orders for the invasion of Germany, I was startled at how quickly they rushed divisions to the front.  The first pangs of uneasiness began setting in.  There were several great battles.  Germany still has a real tech advantage over me, but I'm hoping my surplus of manpower, and Germany's lack there of, begins to swing the tide heavily in my favor.  One unsuspected turn of events finds me scrambling in Scandanavia.  The Germans attacked rather hard here, more so than I would have guessed.  Fortunately, Sweden has severed Germany's supply lines in that theatre.  In the Eastern theatre, I almost have the German forces encircled, including a high number of armoured divisions.  But, I fear I may not have enough divisions at full strength to complete the maneuver.  

As of right now, things seem hopeful for the Red Army.  I continue to hope for aggressive Allied offensives against Germany.  I have noticed that British forces have made headway into Italy.  I hope this continues.  I have made overtures to Japan in hopes they would view my early successes as incentive to join the Comintern.  One thing I do regret is refusing to move my industries east.  If I'm forced to retreat along the Eastern Front, I could be in real trouble if critical IC is lost.

Image #3 -> Eastern Front (Sept. 1941)

Image #4 -> Scandanavian Front (Oct. 1941)

Edited by dojoboy, 08 April 2005 - 11:17 AM.

"There is no end to sorrow."  ---Van Gogh

#11 Sternum

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:41 PM

If things get rough with Germany, I'd consider pulling back in Finland and reinforcing the area around Stalingrad. It's not the most useful territory, so you don't want to waste too many units defending it.

#12 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:56 PM

After several months of brutal battles, offensives, feints, and counter-attacks, the Red Army is poised to launch a decisive offensive against the Nazis.

Unfortunately, Soviet forces were ordered to withdraw from Persia once the UK was able to convince Soviet leadersip that Persia could be convinced to... provide shipments of oil to the Allied and Comintern alliances.  Many young Russian men lost their lives in capturing Persia's northern provinces, only to have to return them with the stroke of a pen (Jan. 1942).  But, now these divisions and resources can be reassigned to the European theatre.  For Mother Russia!

In the international arena, Japan, and its allies (Inner Mongolia and Manchukuo), was finally convinced to join the Comintern.  No longer does the Soviet Union need to be concerned with its eastern lands.  [I realize this isn't historical, but I'll take what I can get in a CORE game.)  Hopefully, Japan's long range bombers will begin carpet bombing Germany soon.

In Scandanavia, thanks to Sweden's intervention, I was able to destroy German forces and regain my lands in the Finnish territories.  The IC boost was minimal.  Because of this success, I was able to reassign the 23rd (Field Marshal Pliev) and 24th (Field Marshal Zhmachenko) army corps to the European front against the Nazis.

On Feb. 22, 1942, Slovakia was officially annexed after succumbing to the Red Army.  Now, Hungary, who is heavily aided by the Germans, remains a combatant in the south.

Image #5 -> Here, a quick dash to Berlin is attempted.  But, it failed and all men were lost.  This is definitely a down side to having an unbalanced army.  Motorized infantry may have made it, before German forces could reroute in time to save Berlin.  I didn't really expect to hold Berlin, but capturing Germany's resources and supplies for a period would have been devastating to the Nazi cause.

Image #6 -> Once German forces were cut off from land supplies and the Soviet navy blockaded the Baltic Sea, the Nazis were soon routed and completely destroyed.  From here, two army corps were reassigned to Europe to face the main force of Hitler's army.

IMAGE LIMIT

Edited by dojoboy, 07 April 2005 - 11:50 AM.

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#13 dojoboy

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 08:57 PM

Image #7 -> Scandanavia in March of 1942.


Image #8 -> Current Soviet-German front in Europe as of March, 1942.  As you can see, some early advantages have been lost.  But, the current Soviet forces fighting in this theatre continue to hold a numerical advantage over the Germans.  And, Soviet manpower appears limitless.  I do not see how Germany can hold out much longer.  Even if I'm stopped here, the Allies will surely break through in the west.  Resources have got to be scarce for Germany and even less for the German people = high dissent levels I hope.

Edited by dojoboy, 07 April 2005 - 11:51 AM.

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#14 Sternum

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 05:02 AM

How are the Allies doing in Italy?

#15 dojoboy

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 06:48 AM

Sternum, on April 7th 2005, 06:02 AM, said:

How are the Allies doing in Italy?

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They are no where to be seen.   :(  Completely knocked out by the Axis.  But, France is still holding onto a province.  Well, they must've captured it by an amphibious landing.  I'm sure it's only temporary.  Also, the Americans are still neutral.  So, other than myself in Europe and the British in North Africa, ... .
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#16 Morrigan

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 09:09 AM

hey what's the HoI keystroke for a screenshot, or do youo just use command+shift+3?

/edit - man, hungary has some ugly tanks :)

#17 dojoboy

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 09:53 AM

Morrigan, on April 7th 2005, 10:09 AM, said:

hey what's the HoI keystroke for a screenshot, or do youo just use command+shift+3?

/edit - man, hungary has some ugly tanks :)

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I just use "command+shift+3" then crop it with "command+shift+4" for smaller pics.

Hungary and Italy need some lessons in design.  :)
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#18 the Battle Cat

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 10:19 AM

Please try to show some restraint with these large graphics.  It really does beat up on people's dial up connections.  Please keep 'em few in number and snapshot sized or just link to them.
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#19 dojoboy

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 10:32 AM

the Battle Cat, on April 7th 2005, 11:19 AM, said:

Please try to show some restraint with these large graphics.

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Do you mean restraint similar to that which you are kindly showing me?   ;)   Very well, I can do that.  I'm going to go back through and set-up....differently.  But, I will adhere to your request.
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#20 Mandrake628

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 12:09 PM

Not to be a dial-up user, because I did have broadband until a week ago, but I was viewing this topic on my 56k.  And it isn't exactly hard on it.  I didn't mind waiting a minute(gasp!), while the pictures load.  I would rather see the pictures.  Anyways, OSX is so flexible, and I have so much stuff to read, it doesn't really reduce my fun/productivity.

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