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Feral's upcoming project?


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#3161 dr.zeissler

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 10:04 AM

Controller in steam can be fixed for all games. Steam-Perfs - Controller. Simply setting up the controller and activate it always in the games.
It's not an out of the box way as it was on intel, but it works. So controller is not an issue in steam anymore.
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#3162 dr.zeissler

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 11:34 AM

...but it's not working anymore. totally buggy, this solution above does not help at all.
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#3163 jeannot

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Posted 17 December 2021 - 01:50 PM

The iOS version of Alien Isolation is out and seems to be a great port. I wonder if it can be played on Apple Silicon...

#3164 Homy

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Posted 17 December 2021 - 01:56 PM

View Postjeannot, on 17 December 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

The iOS version of Alien Isolation is out and seems to be a great port. I wonder if it can be played on Apple Silicon...

No, because I see it on my iPhone but not in Mac App Store under "Apps for iPhones and iPads" so it's blocked because the game already is ported to Mac.

#3165 dr.zeissler

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Posted 17 December 2021 - 02:15 PM

View Postjeannot, on 17 December 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

The iOS version of Alien Isolation is out and seems to be a great port. I wonder if it can be played on Apple Silicon...

Feral statet that there will be no mac-arm64 version. I don't know why the obviously hate to do something for arm64 mac.
It seems that "mac-gaming-is-dead" has opened it's final chapter...so go for ZZZ-Arcade-stuff on Apple-Arcade. Hell yeah!
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#3166 Mr Pink

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Posted 22 December 2021 - 03:35 PM

Here I was... hoping for one more Mac port teaser this year.
Instead another iOS and Android Blip appeared on Feral's Radar.

#3167 jeannot

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 02:10 AM

Feral has found where the money is. With handled devices getting capable of running AAA games released a few years ago, it is much more profitable to port those games than porting current AAA games to Macs.

It doesn't look good for Mac gaming.

#3168 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 04:21 AM

How hard is it to port a game to a M# Mac, if it is already ported to iOS/iPadOS? Would it be relatively trivial, short of optimizing the interface for mouse/keyboard where they could just go with the PC versions way of doing it anyway?
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#3169 jeannot

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 04:38 AM

But iOS games will never be current aaa games. The devices are just not powerful enough and they donít have enough storage for most recent games.
Alien Isolation is already old at this point.
Mac gaming cannot rely on iOS.

#3170 dr.zeissler

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 04:48 AM

Let's face it. FERAL is out of Mac-Gaming. It's a shame. Both major porters are out. Mac is going towards pro's only.
I don't see any chance beside APPLE is FINANCING Porting. What a mess!

The only thing that is needed to prove it, is an official statement of FERAL and the deletion of "mac" in their radar.
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#3171 Homy

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 09:23 AM

I have come to accept that Mac gaming is dying a slow death. Feral has stopped giving out its newsletter? and posting here at IMG and their only future Mac game seems to be Warhammer. One important reason is also DX 12 and Metal's shortcomings which makes such ports impossible. Our only hope now is Crossover 23. Fortunately I have a large backlog so I'll be fine for several years.

#3172 jeannot

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 10:37 AM

View PostHomy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

One important reason is also DX 12 and Metal's shortcomings which makes such ports impossible.
Can you develop? I thought that Metal could support all Dx12 features.

#3173 Homy

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 11:14 AM

View Postjeannot, on 27 December 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

Can you develop? I thought that Metal could support all Dx12 features.

The explanation is in the link:

"On Mac, there is an additional layer of complexity when trying to use VKD3D for DirectX 12 games. That layer of complexity is Metal. Metal is Apple’s low-level, low-overhead, hardware-accelerated graphic and compute shader API. It was introduced back in 2014, and was designed specifically for Apple's GPUs. Metal does provide support for some other GPUs, but because it was geared for Apple hardware it is different from OpenGL, Vulkan, or D3D12 and its predecessors.

In general, Metal does tessellation differently, and is missing geometry shaders and transform feedback. Specific to DirectX 12 and Metal, there is an issue with limits on resources. Generally, games need access to at least one million shader resource views (SRVs). Access to that many SRVs requires resource binding at the Tier 2 level. Metal only supports about 500,000 resources per argument buffer, so Tier 2 resource binding isn’t possible. Metal’s limit of half a million is sufficient for Vulkan descriptor indexing, but not for D3D12. This limitation means CrossOver Mac can't support Tier 2 binding and therefore a lot of DirectX 12 games will not run.

Another problem is that DirectX 12 uses GPU virtual addresses (VAs) to refer to resources for several things; most significantly ray tracing. According to Vulkan, their buffer device address (BDA) extension allows for the creation of complex data structures required for ray tracing, and useful for DirectX 12 porting. However, Apple has yet to add support for VAs or BDAs, insisting that existing argument buffer support is sufficient for what games want to do. While this may be technically true, it requires game designers to make a targeted effort to run on Metal. It is difficult for translation layers (i.e., MoltenVK or VKD3D) to support BDAs/GPU VAs on top of argument buffers, because argument buffers require you to encode the buffer reference into a separate argument buffer, which makes it more comparable to a Vulkan descriptor set or a DirectX 12 descriptor heap.

Considering these obstacles, we believe support for DirectX 12 on Mac could arrive as soon as CrossOver 23."

#3174 Matt Diamond

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 11:54 AM

We still see some significant Indie games published for Mac. I think that number has also gone down but I don't think that market will ever quite disappear from Mac to the extent that AAA gaming has.

I'd much rather use one computer for everything, but even I finally caved and bought a current-gen console. It's inconvenient to keep switching my monitor and sound to it. But it's sure nice to have more game choices, even though certain genres are missing from consoles.

(I will buy a Mac version of a game when I can. It's the only reason I haven't bought Psychonauts 2 for the XBox yet - the Mac version was delayed but will hopefully still come out.)
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#3175 Homy

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 11:59 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 27 December 2021 - 11:54 AM, said:

We still see some significant Indie games published for Mac. I think that number has also gone down but I don't think that market will ever quite disappear from Mac to the extent that AAA gaming has.

Yes, that and iOS games. Let's hope 4A Games continues its support for Mac. Things might change if Apple updates Metal or MoltenVK gets better and more developers use it but it's going to take some years, again.

#3176 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 12:35 PM

View PostHomy, on 27 December 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

Fortunately I have a large backlog so I'll be fine for several years.
So do I, but due to the size two problems are catching up: Games actually being removed for download from stores due to license issues, and lack of a machine sufficiently old enough to actually run some older games and at the same time be fast enough to run AAA 3D games properly. I am stuck with my 2011 iMac, but thinking about upgrading to a M2-3 Max Mac Mini.
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#3177 Homy

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 12:41 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 27 December 2021 - 12:35 PM, said:

So do I, but due to the size two problems are catching up: Games actually being removed for download from stores due to license issues, and lack of a machine sufficiently old enough to actually run some older games and at the same time be fast enough to run AAA 3D games properly. I am stuck with my 2011 iMac, but thinking about upgrading to a M2-3 Max Mac Mini.
Yes. I had to bite the bullet and buy a base MBP 14" because my iMac 21.5" 2011 has been causing problems with not starting or suddenly getting black screen and not responding. I suspect the power supply or graphics card. I rather would by a Mac Mini or iMac M1 Pro/Max but couldn't wait any longer and Apple is slow.

#3178 jeannot

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 01:33 PM

View PostHomy, on 27 December 2021 - 11:14 AM, said:

The explanation is in the link
These differences between Metal and directx12 mostly affect automatic translation layers, but I donít think that porting houses like Feral have these issues. I remember that Feral was quite happy with their port of SoTR, which was based on the direct12 version rather the the dx11 version.

#3179 Homy

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 01:51 PM

View Postjeannot, on 27 December 2021 - 01:33 PM, said:

These differences between Metal and directx12 mostly affect automatic translation layers, but I don't think that porting houses like Feral have these issues. I remember that Feral was quite happy with their port of SoTR, which was based on the direct12 version rather the the dx11 version.

Good to hear and maybe true in some cases but Shadow of The Tomb Raider is over three years old and maybe it didn't use/need more than 500,000 resources per argument buffer in Metal? Newer games may need more?

#3180 jeannot

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Posted 27 December 2021 - 02:59 PM

Some knowledgeable poster at MacRumors says this is unlikely, or at least there are workarounds. This may be a problem for automated translation though, as there is no fine control of the process.

I bet automatically translating Metal into directx12 via Vulkan would be just as problematic given the many features that are specific to Metal.