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16" Macbook Pro


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#1 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:20 PM

Pretty nice upgrade: https://www.apple.co...macbook-pro-16/

Some highlights:
  • Same starting price as 15" model it replaces
  • Much improved Navi graphics (5500M is around 90% faster then the 560X, and around 40% faster then the Vega20 in gaming)
  • Double the storage on the base model configs (base config now starts at 512GB)
  • Return of the scissor mechanism keyboard should hopefully mean the end of the keyboard reliability issues
  • Return of physical ESC key
  • They let you fully upgrade the GPU on the base model (don't need to get the 8 core model to get the good GPU)

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#2 Frigidman™

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:08 PM

Yeah, I was browsing around on it this morning. I'm interested.... but 'not right now', because it will ship with Catalina, and well... Catalina is a complete mess right now. Also, I just got a mini2018 recently, which is doing just fine for my needs for at least the rest of this year and well into next.

However that new 16" mbp is on my radar.

Even maxed out, all the bells, and even a whistle... its only $6k... same price I paid to have my house painted last year (but sadly, the paint on the house would most likely last longer than the new laptop).

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#3 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:58 PM

I'm thinking they will release at 14" version in spring 2020 to replace the existing 13" MBP. That would be the model I would be most interested in. 16" definitely has my interest right now, but it starts at $3K CAD which is a bit much for my budget (work doesn't really let me spend more then $2K on a laptop)
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#4 macdude22

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:12 PM

13/16 has a nice symmetry to it.
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#5 Frigidman™

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:17 PM

Shame they just won't make a 21" laptop with full touch screen + keyboard/touchpads, and call it the iPortfolio ... ya know... for them serious artists on the go.

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#6 Janichsan

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 05:26 AM

I would consider getting this new MBP just to get rid of that bloody butterfly keyboard alone. But I currently simply don't have that kind of money. And yes, there's also that Catalina thing…

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#7 Spike

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 09:48 AM

Not to mention still has touchbar, no Ice Lake processor yet (28W and lower shipping I believe right now), no LPDDR4 memory (goes along with Ice Lake), etc. But 10.15 required is the dealbreaker.

#8 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:21 PM

View PostSpike, on 14 November 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

Not to mention still has touchbar, no Ice Lake processor yet (28W and lower shipping I believe right now), no LPDDR4 memory (goes along with Ice Lake), etc. But 10.15 required is the dealbreaker.

Touchbar is a valid complaint as it is still just mostly a gimmick

However, Ice Lake has no place in the 16" MBP. The absolute best Ice Lake CPU on the market (i7 1068G7) is only a quad core and is quite a bit less powerful then even the base CPU in the cheapest 16" MBP. Professional users would be fuming if they handicapped the performance by going with Ice Lake.

We won't see Intel's 10nm chips for desktops or high performance laptops until next year. Ice Lake is only for ultrabooks at the moment.

The 14" version likely coming out in the spring will almost certainly have Ice Lake and Comet Lake CPUs, but still will be less powerful then the 16" MBP in sustained multi-threaded workloads.
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#9 Janichsan

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 05:41 AM

While it's not as big as a problem as other things, what also puzzles me massively about the new MBP is the screen's resolution: why the hell does this thing still not support 4k? Why this weird resolution of 3072x1920 which doesn't match any standard? And what the frak is up with these completely bonkers resolutions of 6016x3384 and 4096x2304 supported on external displays?

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#10 macdude22

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:30 AM

4096 x 2304 is true  16:9 4k. 6016 x 3384 is the 6K resolution of the Pro display.

​I expect the lack of true 4k on the built in display is for power saving. At 15 - 16 inches the PPI is already very high. They look SHARP to the human eye. Another thousand pixels is another thousand pixels to power for what may be considered a marginal visual improvement.
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#11 Janichsan

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:07 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 15 November 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

4096 x 2304 is true  16:9 4k. 6016 x 3384 is the 6K resolution of the Pro display.

Hm, okay. Seems about right.

Quote

​I expect the lack of true 4k on the built in display is for power saving. At 15 - 16 inches the PPI is already very high. They look SHARP to the human eye. Another thousand pixels is another thousand pixels to power for what may be considered a marginal visual improvement.
How tight must the energy budget be when there's not enough juice to push that extra pixels - which, by the way, many competitors offer.

And the point of having actual 4K is not so much that the pixels on the current displays are so disgustingly huge. It's that if you want or need scaled higher resolutions on your MacBook display, you absolutely will see scaling artifacts, like flickering fine lines or blurred details.

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#12 macdude22

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:24 AM

Our MacBook and iPhone users go all day without a charge. Our Dell and Android users are constantly fluttering about trying to find AC. I'll err on Apple's power management here.

I will concede that in 2019, on a portable computer with the moniker "Pro" a 4K display should at least be an option. Perhaps with the understanding it may have a tangible effect on battery life. There was a time Apple offered display options on their portable devices. I purchased my 2012 MBP (non retina) with the uncommon but delightful 1680-by-1050 matte display (I believe this was a hundred dollar upgrade maybe?).
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#13 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:48 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 15 November 2019 - 08:24 AM, said:

Our MacBook and iPhone users go all day without a charge. Our Dell and Android users are constantly fluttering about trying to find AC. I'll err on Apple's power management here.

I will concede that in 2019, on a portable computer with the moniker "Pro" a 4K display should at least be an option. Perhaps with the understanding it may have a tangible effect on battery life. There was a time Apple offered display options on their portable devices. I purchased my 2012 MBP (non retina) with the uncommon but delightful 1680-by-1050 matte display (I believe this was a hundred dollar upgrade maybe?).

Right, I paid the extra $100 for the matte on my 17" MBP (1920x1200 SD). Lovely screen.

With just 16" ... I dont see the point in cramming in 4k pixels, I guess some people use their laptops with magnifying glasses? •shrug•

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#14 Cougar

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:09 AM

View PostFrigidman™, on 15 November 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:



With just 16" ... I dont see the point in cramming in 4k pixels, I guess some people use their laptops with magnifying glasses? •shrug•

The idea is that you would use the pixels to do proper, non-scaled pixel doubling, not do this awkward scaling where everything is oh-so-slightly blurry. Today you have to make a choice between 2x and bad screen real estate, or blur and good screen real estate. The new laptops are slightly better with the higher PPI but there’s still scaling going on.

While we’re talking about screens, also am waiting patiently for 120 hz to make its way to something that isn’t an iPad.

#15 Frigidman™

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:14 AM

View PostCougar, on 15 November 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

The idea is that you would use the pixels to do proper, non-scaled pixel doubling, not do this awkward scaling where everything is oh-so-slightly blurry. Today you have to make a choice between 2x and bad screen real estate, or blur and good screen real estate. The new laptops are slightly better with the higher PPI but there's still scaling going on.

While we're talking about screens, also am waiting patiently for 120 hz to make its way to something that isn't an iPad.

Oh. Yeah..... man, dont get me started on that blurry popsnizzle apple does on retina displays.... holy hell.

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#16 Spike

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:32 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 14 November 2019 - 10:21 PM, said:

However, Ice Lake has no place in the 16" MBP.

No, Ice Lake does have a place and will be in the 16" MBP. As I said they are only shipping the low wattage versions now, but when the 45W ships, then thats when Im looking to upgrade. Not only for performance, but also 10nm energy savings, spectre and meltdown hardware mitigations, LPDDR4, 1.15TF gpu, etc..

#17 Matt Diamond

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 12:01 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 14 November 2019 - 10:21 PM, said:

However, Ice Lake has no place in the 16" MBP.

View PostSpike, on 15 November 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

No, Ice Lake does have a place and will be in the 16" MBP. As I said they are only shipping the low wattage versions now, but when the 45W ships, then thats when Im looking to upgrade. Not only for performance, but also 10nm energy savings, spectre and meltdown hardware mitigations, LPDDR4, 1.15TF gpu, etc..
Sneaky was clearly saying that what's on the market right now isn't suitable for the 16". (Sample quote: "Ice Lake is only for ultrabooks at the moment".) You are talking about a future version being suitable.

Let's spend our time fighting over real disagreements, not imagined ones. :-)
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#18 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:07 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 15 November 2019 - 08:24 AM, said:

Our MacBook and iPhone users go all day without a charge. Our [Dell and] Android users are constantly fluttering about trying to find AC. I'll err on Apple's power management here.

Tell those users to dump their 4 year old Galaxys and buy something modern. All modern decent Android phones can keep up for a day no problem (unless your users are playing 3D games all day at work).

#19 Homy

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 01:18 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 13 November 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

  • Much improved Navi graphics (5500M is around 90% faster then the 560X, and around 40% faster then the Vega20 in gaming)
Actually 5500M 4 GB is about 143% faster than 560X in Unigine Heaven Ultra 1600x900 according to this review.
5300M 4 GB is ca 168% faster than 555X and ca 24% faster than Vega 20 in Unigine Heaven Extreme 1600x900 according to this review.

I think iMacs will get this GPU update next year so we don't have to wait two years again for the next update. They probably will get the desktop versions.

#20 jeannot

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 01:50 PM

View PostHomy, on 17 November 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

Actually 5500M 4 GB is about 240% faster than 560X in Unigine Heaven Ultra 1600x900 according to this review.
5300M 4 GB is ca 270% faster than 555X and ca 24% faster than Vega 20 in Unigine Heaven Extreme 1600x900 according to this review.

I think iMacs will get this GPU update next year so we don't have to wait two years again for the next update. They probably will get the desktop versions.
1600*900 is not adequate to test GPU performance, neither is Unigine 1. It's much too old.