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#121 The Liberator

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 02:15 AM

I'd be careful Frost, you never know what he might do. He might even give you chocolates. ;)

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#122 Frost

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 05:06 PM

Thread resurrection!

Amusing article I ran across today: 5 Ridiculous Gun Myths Everyone Believes (Thanks to Movies)
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#123 teflon

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 05:32 PM

Nice article, I'll admit I'd been slightly indoctrinated to not know points 5 and 2 (silencers are pointless and cocking of guns), but that's basically just not thinking about it, and not really knowing the inner workings of guns...
Oh and really?! 250,000 bullets per insurgent?! Wow.

The rest, I knew.

Great article though.
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#124 Frost

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 06:05 PM

Yeah, you CAN actually get suppressed weapons relatively quiet (there's a reason they're in reality called "suppressors" and not "silencers"), but you need to go with subsonic ammunition and a rather high quality suppressor. And even then, it's still largely dependent on what kind of weapon you're using. You can fire suppressed .22LR and it'll only be about the volume of a pellet gun, but that's about the only case where that's true.

Do a Solid Snake and fire suppressed .45ACP out of a Mark 23 and it's as loud as an unsuppressed .22LR; he won't be sneakily taking out any guards with that. Go subsonic and it'll be much quieter, but still loud enough you can hear it if you're anywhere nearby. Rifles and shotguns though, forget it. It'll be significantly less loud, but the reduction is from "hearing damage" to "loud as HELL." That No Country For Old Men shotgun is impossible.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#125 the Battle Cat

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 06:12 PM

Yay I win!  

I'd like to add that listening to the difference between a gunshot and a silenced gun shot on youtube (or your computer, TV, or movie) is as real as chicken fur.  That medium just cannot convey the magnitude nor the impact of the sound on your body.  It is freakin' loud and a genuine shock to you.  I'm stone deaf in two frequencies from small arms, ordnance and explosions.  You could hear the silenced shots echoing several times off of the hills it was so loud.
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#126 pantherv

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:02 PM

my weapon of choice is my legs, i run faster then my fat friend when camping and a bear is around.
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#127 Rev-O

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 10:08 PM

Loved the list.  Just some of the Hollywood fabrications that folks accept. A couple others off the top of my head:
Fire hydrants (outside of California or Florida or a few other never-cold locals) do not spout water into the air when hit by a car. They shut themselves off.
You can throw a ciggie into a puddle of gas and the gas won't ignite. Not enough vapor density. Hell, you can put out a lit match with diesel.

#128 Frost

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 10:56 PM

A couple more they didn't cover that people commonly believe thanks to movies:

1) Violations of the laws of motion. Getting hit by a small, very fast piece of metal doesn't lift your body off the ground and throw you backwards. If you were firing something with enough force to toss someone through the air, it'd also toss you and your weapon backwards due to its acceleration. You'll notice this is actually a relatively new movie invention. In old films when someone got shot, they'd take a hit and go down. There wasn't a stunt crew behind them with wires.

2) Guns making ominous clicky noises when aiming them. If your gun is making noises when you raise it to fire, it doesn't mean you're using a badass gun and you're a movie protagonist, it means something's rattling around internally and you better strip it down and fix it because a malfunction is likely imminent.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#129 The Liberator

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 11:08 PM

View PostRev-O, on 20 August 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Loved the list.  Just some of the Hollywood fabrications that folks accept. A couple others off the top of my head:
Fire hydrants (outside of California or Florida or a few other never-cold locals) do not spout water into the air when hit by a car. They shut themselves off.
You can throw a ciggie into a puddle of gas and the gas won't ignite. Not enough vapor density. Hell, you can put out a lit match with diesel.
Would the diesel not deflagrate (burn)?

View PostFrost, on 20 August 2010 - 10:56 PM, said:

2) Guns making ominous clicky noises when aiming them. If your gun is making noises when you raise it to fire, it doesn't mean you're using a badass gun and you're a movie protagonist, it means something's rattling around internally and you better strip it down and fix it because a malfunction is likely imminent.
Ha ha ha, yeah! I can say I thought that when people clicked the guns (handguns that is), they were taking the safety off, although it did seem a bit odd doing that. ;)

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#130 PeopleLikeFrank

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:29 AM

Glad to say I knew most of that already, except the body armour bit. I knew that armour would still leave you bruised all to hell, but I didn't know that rifles would penetrate police-level (and military-level from close enough) armour.

And to echo Teflon a bit - holy hell, 250,000 bullets per insurgent!?!?
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#131 teflon

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:42 AM

View PostPeopleLikeFrank, on 21 August 2010 - 01:29 AM, said:

Glad to say I knew most of that already, except the body armour bit. I knew that armour would still leave you bruised all to hell, but I didn't know that rifles would penetrate police-level (and military-level from close enough) armour.

They actually have disclaimers put inside them saying that if you get hit, they're not particularly likely to keep you alive.
In a warzone, the main protection they offer you is against ricochets and maybe shrapnel...
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#132 Frost

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:21 AM

View PostPeopleLikeFrank, on 21 August 2010 - 01:29 AM, said:

Glad to say I knew most of that already, except the body armour bit. I knew that armour would still leave you bruised all to hell, but I didn't know that rifles would penetrate police-level (and military-level from close enough) armour.
I'm not sure what other countries use for their standards, but the US uses the NIJ standards and they go something like this:

Type I (.22 LR; .380 ACP). This armor protects against .22 long rifle lead round nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less, and against .380 ACP full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN), with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. Type I body armor is light. This is the minimum level of protection every officer should have, and the armor should be routinely worn at all times while on duty. Type I body armor was the armor issued during the NIJ demonstration project in the mid-1970s. Most agencies today, however, because of increasing threats, opt for a higher level of protection.

Type II-A (9mm; .40 S&W). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 332 m/s (1090 ft/s) or less, and .40 S&W caliber full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets, with nominal masses of 11.7 g (180 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I threats. Type II-A body armor is well suited for full-time use by police departments, particularly those seeking protection for their officers from lower velocity 9mm and 40 S&W ammunition.

Type II (9mm; .357 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 358 m/s (1175 ft/s) or less, and .357 Magnum jacketed soft point (JSP) bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I and Type IIA threats. Type II body armor is heavier and more bulky than either Types I or II-A. It is worn full time by officers seeking protection against higher velocity .357 Magnum and 9mm ammunition.

Type III-A (High Velocity 9mm; .44 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FJM RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less, and .44 Magnum jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, with nominal masses of 15.6 g (240 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the Type I, II-A, and II threats. Type III-A body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available from concealable body armor and is generally suitable for routine wear in many situations. However, users located in hot, humid climates may need to evaluate the use of Type III-A armor carefully.

Type III (Rifles). This armor protects against 7.62mm full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets (U.S. military designation M80), with nominal masses of 9.6 g (148 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 838 m/s (2750 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I through III-A threats. Type III body armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection, such as barricade confrontations involving sporting rifles.

Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle). This armor protects against .30 caliber armor piercing (AP) bullets (U.S. military designation M2 AP), with nominal masses of 10.8 g (166 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 869 m/s (2850 ft/s) or less. It also provides at least single-hit protection against the Type I through III threats. Type IV body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available. Because this armor is intended to resist “armor piercing” bullets, it often uses ceramic materials. Such materials are brittle in nature and may provide only single-shot protection, since the ceramic tends to break up when struck. As with Type III armor, Type IV armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection.

Type III-A and III are what you'll usually see on SWAT cops. Infantry will usually be III or sometimes IV.

Body armor has actually been developed recently that performs in excess of the level IV standard and can take higher caliber AP rifle rounds at point blank range, but it's not currently in use and there's been a big, ongoing political stink over it that's probably best not discussed here.

View PostPeopleLikeFrank, on 21 August 2010 - 01:29 AM, said:

And to echo Teflon a bit - holy hell, 250,000 bullets per insurgent!?!?
Yeah, that's pretty crazy... I'd say the 52,000 shots per kill record of Vietnam is officially smashed to little tiny bits. Although granted current combat doctrines favor large-scale suppressing fire a LOT more than they did back then (and for good reason), so a big part of the explanation can be found in that. The thinking started in WWII and has been growing ever since: that is if you spend an extra 30,000 rounds in a large engagement, but that allows you to keep the enemy's heads down and in a position where you can pin them and then outmaneuver them, then it pays dividends in the form of your own men not taking hits or getting killed. Another 250,000 M855s can always be made for about $25,000, but a $640,000 to $4,000,000 combat soldier and more importantly his life are much more expensive.
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#133 the Battle Cat

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:40 AM

In addition Fam-fire eats up a hellacious number of rounds.  Fam-fire is simply target practice and weapons familiarization.  Most days you have the opportunity of burning up ammo siting in or just getting to know your weapon.  At least that is what we did in Vietnam.  These rounds are counted in with the other rounds actually shot during combat and can exceed rounds fired in combat.  Most war causalities are caused by artillery not small arms, though the house to house fighting of late is an exception I would guess.
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#134 DaveyJJ

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:10 AM

As a Canadian I don't understand the need to own weapons (sissy Canuck socialist that I am), but have, throughout my life, had the opportunity to fire and care for many types of weapons.

As a Canadian Armed Forces infantry reservist in the early 1980s, I was intimately familiar with the FNC1A1, the 10lb 7.62mm beast that rocked as a rifle. I could field strip that sucker down so fast. I've fired that many, many times. I've fired handguns varying from Colt 45s, to Sig Sauers, the CZ75s, to Brownings, and numerous revolvers including competition pistols. As a reservist I've also fired on range a Sterling SMG. A few types of shotguns, and my friend's dad growing up was a collector (and WW2 pilot) so from his collection some sort of .32 caliber (?) WW2 air force pistol, a German K98, and he had two Lee Enfields which I was able to fire a few times.

I think that's my list. But no, I don't own any.

P.S. One night exercise at Camp Borden I got to carry the anti-tank weapon in our ambush of three vehicles on a bridge. That was  fun.

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#135 Rev-O

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 12:36 PM

View PostThe Liberator, on 20 August 2010 - 11:08 PM, said:

Would the diesel not deflagrate (burn)?
Liberator.

Nah, diesel just isn't combustible. It takes high pressures to ignite the stuff. Part of the reason why diesel engines have such high compression ratios.
I've tried this myself, but here is a Youtube demo.

#136 Frost

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:34 PM

View PostDaveyJJ, on 21 August 2010 - 10:10 AM, said:

As a Canadian I don't understand the need to own weapons (sissy Canuck socialist that I am)
Well, if for nothing else, then for the same reason you own a fast car. They're HELLA FUN! :D

BTW, I don't think I've ever posted this one before. This is my cousin shooting my AR-15 a couple of years ago at an extremely crappy indoor Dallas range (they've since found far nicer places to shoot when I pay a visit).


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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#137 Frost

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:03 AM

Mega necropost!

Finally decided to make like Nike, Just Do It, and get my Grail Gun that I've wanted for almost 20 years. HK Mark 23 SOCOM, aka Solid Snake's gun. It took months of hunting as I wanted a REAL one that was exactly the same as the military version aside from a different roll mark. That meant finding one made between 1996 and 2003, before the MK23 contract ended in 2004 and HK stopped making the commercial models to the same spec. Found a beauty from 2002 with less than 200 rounds fired over the past 15 years (that will be changing shortly).

Attached File  MK23-1.jpg   94.9K   30 downloads

Next to my other favorite pistol, my Beretta M9.

Attached File  MK23-2.jpg   217.98K   29 downloads
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Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#138 the Battle Cat

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:07 AM

Announcer: Well Solid Snake, now that you finally got your old pistol back what are you going to do?
Solid Snake: I'm going to DISNEYLAND!
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#139 G_Player

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:21 PM

With all the nut cases running around lately, I'm seriously considering getting a concealed carry permit
(my longbow doesn't conceal at all and a quiver full of bodkin-tipped arrows won't fit under a winter coat).

Now guys, don't laugh...

I wear a kilt most of the time (except, of course, during this harsh winter) and plan on strapping it to my upper thigh under the kilt.

I should like a 9MM that shoots sweetly (not a lot of kick), will fit under the kilt strapped to my thigh, and POINTS DOWNWARD.

What do you guys recommend?
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#140 G_Player

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:46 PM

:blush:  …forgot to tick the 'Follow this topic?' box.
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