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Rosetta 2 & Intel games


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#41 nick68k

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 12:13 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 12 November 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

RAM is RAM, and either something is stored there or not. But software is more intelligent now, especially the OS, as to what needs to stay there or what not, and it is also much much faster. 16 is not enough for a lot of professionals, but it will be sufficient for the vast majority for a long while. But 500 bytes were also sufficient a few decades ago..

Well, maybe this'll work *chin-stroking emoji*

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#42 dr.zeissler

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Posted 12 November 2020 - 05:44 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 12 November 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

But 500 bytes were also sufficient a few decades ago..

?
you are talking about bill gates and his statement that 640KB will be enough for everyone (pc)?
The PS5 also streams from the fast SSD's, so what's the point here?
Sharing the RAM in such a elegant way will be a huge step forward. what I need to know is the feature-set these integrated gpu's support.
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#43 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 13 November 2020 - 06:15 AM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 12 November 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

?
you are talking about bill gates and his statement that 640KB will be enough for everyone (pc)?
The PS5 also streams from the fast SSD's, so what's the point here?
Sharing the RAM in such a elegant way will be a huge step forward. what I need to know is the feature-set these integrated gpu's support.
Not at all, because Gates never said those words. Its an urban legend.

The point was that software uses more and more RAM, so no matter what, 8GB will not be enough in the future, even if it is now.
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#44 Homy

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Posted 15 November 2020 - 05:12 PM

The first benchmarks for Rosetta 2 is on Geekbench and it's impressive. The single-core is still faster than 10-core i9-10910 3.6 GHz in iMac and the multi-core is on par with 6-core i5-10500 3.1 GHz in iMac 27". I was planning to buy an Intel iMac 3.1 GHz if Apple Silicon didn't impress but this blows my mind. Imagine how fast the iMac M1/2/X/Z will be next year. Now I only hope that the GPU in iMac M can deliver too. Then we could play all our Intel games at least as fast. There will be some graphical bugs for sure but this is very promising. :D

#45 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 03:51 AM

I am still at the point of 'I still don't believe those numbers, they are too insane!' stage.
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#46 galad

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 07:05 AM

View Postnick68k, on 12 November 2020 - 12:13 PM, said:

Well, maybe this'll work *chin-stroking emoji*

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The fun fact is that most operating systems already implement memory compression.

#47 Matt Diamond

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 10:45 AM

View Postgalad, on 16 November 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

The fun fact is that most operating systems already implement memory compression.
In the "good old days" there were products for features like this that the OS did poorly, or not at all.

RAM disk is another example. People would manually copy data or a program into a chunk of memory that was pretending to be a very fast disk. This helped some programs a lot because they (and the OS) weren't good at caching resources, and real disks were so slow.

I suppose DiskDoubler is another one, though I don't think Mac OS ever had a way to automatically compress files that you don't use often, and decompress them on the fly. It was a feature of Windows though. Like RAM disks, I think its a feature whose time is mostly past.

It's easy to forget how much the good old days sucked, in some ways.

p.s. An even better example is Switcher. https://www.folklore...ry=Switcher.txt
It was so essential that Apple bought it (and Microsoft tried to buy it too.)

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#48 nick68k

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:09 PM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 16 November 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

In the "good old days" there were products for features like this that the OS did poorly, or not at all.

I used RamDoubler on my System 7 Quadra 610 during my grad school years ( - one of my favourite Macs, btw). It worked, more or less. I 'doubled' 4 Mb to 8 as I recall (younger readers may not be aware how heinously expensive RAM was back in the day, especially on a student budget).
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#49 Ichigo27

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 09:14 PM

View PostHomy, on 15 November 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

The first benchmarks for Rosetta 2 is on Geekbench and it's impressive.

But nothing in relation to how it performs with total war three kingdoms?
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#50 Matt Diamond

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 10:11 AM

View Postnick68k, on 16 November 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:

I used RamDoubler on my System 7 Quadra 610 during my grad school years ( - one of my favourite Macs, btw). It worked, more or less. I 'doubled' 4 Mb to 8 as I recall (younger readers may not be aware how heinously expensive RAM was back in the day, especially on a student budget).

I was a DiskDoubler man, myself. I reported a bug once and he quickly fixed it and mailed me a diskette with a beta copy to try out. Great support.

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#51 dr.zeissler

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 10:15 AM

Speeddoubler was best!
Better 68K translation-layer that apple offered. so 68k games run really good on lowend ppc601 like pm6100/66 (with cache).
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#52 Matt Diamond

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 10:30 AM

View Postdr.zeissler, on 17 November 2020 - 10:15 AM, said:

Speeddoubler was best!
Better 68K translation-layer that apple offered. so 68k games run really good on lowend ppc601 like pm6100/66 (with cache).
I didn't know about that one. Awesome!

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#53 dr.zeissler

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 10:32 AM

test chuck yeager's air combat...it great's great on the 68k emulation of speeddoubler and 25%+ faster than without it on small PPC.
there are different versions for OS7.5/7.6 and 8.x... really great software!
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#54 Homy

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 11:23 AM

Shadow of the Tomb Raider on MBA
1920x1200 lowest settings 38 fps
1920x1200 highest settings 20 fps
2560x1600 lowest settings 25 fps
2560x1600 highest settings 13 fps

#55 Matt Diamond

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 05:36 PM

Wow, that's on the Air. A low-end model with integrated graphics and no fan.

The only downside is we don't have any mid-range and high-end models yet. Maybe they'll be exactly the same speed but with bigger screens, more RAM, and more ports. :-)

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#56 Homy

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Posted 17 November 2020 - 06:36 PM

League of Legends on MBA
2560x1600 Very High 50-60 fps

Max Tech said that the game was glitchy with dropped frames on a MBP 2018 Radeon Pro 555X.

Rise of the Tomb Raider on Mac Mini
1920x1080 Very High FXAA 39.6 fps

Fortnite on MBP 13"
Upscaled 2560x1600 3D resolution 75% 1920x1200 high settings 40 fps

#57 dr.zeissler

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 10:41 AM

rosetta2 cost about 25% performance...so rise of the tombraider in 1080p in high could be 60fps !!!! come on feral... make it native :)
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#58 Homy

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 11:43 AM

25 games tested. Very impressive! I mean Bioshock 2 Remastered, Borderlands 2-3 and Deus Ex Mankind Divided on ultra settings on iGPU through Rosetta??? WOW!

#59 dr.zeissler

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 11:44 AM

yeah! is saw that too...very impressive.
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#60 Matt Diamond

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Posted 18 November 2020 - 04:40 PM

Shocked: Borderlands 3 performance is not hugely worse than on my Intel Mini + eGPU?! But I guess it makes sense, CPU is often its bottleneck, judging from my fans.

I have to wonder if this could be a game changer for the Mac games market. Specifically: if a demanding game only runs on the high-end Macs, there isn't much incentive to publish a Mac version. There are a LOT of iMacs and MacBooks out there, but most of them don't run high-end games well. The calculation changes if low-end Macs start to run those games too.

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