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macOS 10.13 - High Sierra


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#41 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 12:29 AM

What about using an external drive to boot an older macOS for games needing it? I think I did that to boot Mavericks ages ago for some games that didn’t work well or at all, I forget now, on whatever version followed that.
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#42 jeannot

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 03:38 AM

Everything is possible, like keeping an old Mac around when the new models all require macOS >10.13 and can't run 32-bit games, but it's sad that macOS keeps breaking compatibility.
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#43 Atticus

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 08:15 PM

10.13.4 is out. Go get it for eGPU support.
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#44 Cougar

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 03:21 PM

View PostAtticus, on 29 March 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

10.13.4 is out. Go get it for eGPU support.

AMD GPU support. :(

Highly doubt the Mac Pro will have an nVidia option.

#45 ozzy

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:42 PM

Also only if you have a Thunderbolt 3 mac. No dice for TB1 or TB2 macs, which kind of sucks :(

#46 Cougar

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:21 PM

View Postozzy, on 01 April 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

Also only if you have a Thunderbolt 3 mac. No dice for TB1 or TB2 macs, which kind of sucks :(

Not that surprising though. Apple's philosophy is always do it right or not at all. Plus, it heavily simplifies support on their end.

#47 jgwdoc

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:46 AM

Since there's no eGPU support for Bootcamp, practically speaking, this doesn't really help gaming unless there's a sudden explosion of AAA titles for Mac OS.
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#48 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:57 AM

View Postjgwdoc, on 02 April 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Since there's no eGPU support for Bootcamp, practically speaking, this doesn't really help gaming unless there's a sudden explosion of AAA titles for Mac OS.

I've been under the impression that eGPU's typically work fine with bootcamp, but Apple just doesn't support them. It's up to someone else to provide the driver support on the windows side of things.
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#49 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 12:02 PM

View PostCougar, on 30 March 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

AMD GPU support. :(

Highly doubt the Mac Pro will have an nVidia option.

Apple seems to have dropped Nvidia ever since Nvidia fraked them over with the 8000 series chips in the MBP. (8000 series chips were failing for pretty much every laptop manufacturer, and Nvidia seemed to refuse to take any responsibility. AMD's 6000 series chips had similar problems, but AMD seems to have worked with apple to resolve the issues, which is why Apple is working with AMD to this day).

AMD GPU's perform fine and the have competitors with every Nvidia GPU below the 1080 Ti. Nvidia has been releasing drivers for Mac, but apparently they haven't been very good (according to what I've seen in r/hackintosh on reddit). I would definitely stick with AMD on the Mac side of things for now to maintain maximum stability. If you aren't hung up on the brand name for Nvidia, then you'll have zero issues using an AMD card. If you look at modern benchmarks from 2018 the 580 performs pretty much identically to the 1060, The Vega 56 similar to the 1070 Ti, and the Vega 64 is a bit behind the 1080 (although it is in between the 1080 and 1080 Ti in AMD optimised titles like Far Cry 5)

People like to point on the higher power draw on the AMD cards, but honestly the difference is negligible unless you are using the GPU 24/7 for mining or something like that. Both AMD and Nvidia cards have comparable idle power draw, and if even if you are gaming a few hours a day, that will only add up to a few dollars per year in power costs.

The new Intel Hades Canyon NUC with the joint Intel/AMD chip is very interesting. It has similar graphics performance to a GTX 970 or 1060 maxQ, but does it with a combined TDP of only 100W (CPU+GPU). They are also selling slightly slower versions of that chip that are already shipping in Dell XPS 15" 2 in 1. Really hope that we see a chip like that come to the entry level iMac, Macbook Pros, and Mac Mini (if they every update the mini).
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#50 jgwdoc

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 03:45 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 02 April 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

I've been under the impression that eGPU's typically work fine with bootcamp, but Apple just doesn't support them. It's up to someone else to provide the driver support on the windows side of things.

In Apple's release notes, they specifically said Bootcamp was not supported. So, maybe third party drivers would work (I've used bootcampdrivers.com), but it seems a bit iffy.
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#51 elowel

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:13 PM

There are plenty of reports of eGPUs working with Boot Camp over in eGPU enthusiast websites, but the process is a little more involved than the plug and play Apple have got working in macOS. "Not supported' doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work.

#52 Tetsuya

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:38 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 02 April 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:



Apple seems to have dropped Nvidia ever since Nvidia fraked them over with the 8000 series chips in the MBP. (8000 series chips were failing for pretty much every laptop manufacturer, and Nvidia seemed to refuse to take any responsibility. AMD's 6000 series chips had similar problems, but AMD seems to have worked with apple to resolve the issues, which is why Apple is working with AMD to this day).

AMD GPU's perform fine and the have competitors with every Nvidia GPU below the 1080 Ti. Nvidia has been releasing drivers for Mac, but apparently they haven't been very good (according to what I've seen in r/hackintosh on reddit). I would definitely stick with AMD on the Mac side of things for now to maintain maximum stability. If you aren't hung up on the brand name for Nvidia, then you'll have zero issues using an AMD card. If you look at modern benchmarks from 2018 the 580 performs pretty much identically to the 1060, The Vega 56 similar to the 1070 Ti, and the Vega 64 is a bit behind the 1080 (although it is in between the 1080 and 1080 Ti in AMD optimised titles like Far Cry 5)

People like to point on the higher power draw on the AMD cards, but honestly the difference is negligible unless you are using the GPU 24/7 for mining or something like that. Both AMD and Nvidia cards have comparable idle power draw, and if even if you are gaming a few hours a day, that will only add up to a few dollars per year in power costs.

The new Intel Hades Canyon NUC with the joint Intel/AMD chip is very interesting. It has similar graphics performance to a GTX 970 or 1060 maxQ, but does it with a combined TDP of only 100W (CPU+GPU). They are also selling slightly slower versions of that chip that are already shipping in Dell XPS 15" 2 in 1. Really hope that we see a chip like that come to the entry level iMac, Macbook Pros, and Mac Mini (if they every update the mini).

The Vega 56 is comparable to the vanilla 1070, not the Ti.  The 64 needs to be hevaily user modified (undervolted, custom colling) to match a 1080.  

And given that they are completely unavailable at MSRP and that said MSRP is more expensive than nVidia cards that they are “equivalent” to... they are not competing above the midrange, unless your definition of “competing” is “paying more to get less”.  

And the power draw complaints have little to do with a power bill and a lot more to do with the fact that more draw = more heat.  

Now, at the midrange and low end, theyre doing great.  The RX 560, 570, and 580 compete quite well against their nVidia counterparts, if you can find them at MSRP.  That being the major issue.  Both manufacturers are having issues getting cards out at MSRP, but AMds cards are more inflated than nVidia by a mile (RX 580 8GB for ~400$, vs a GTX 1060 6GB for ~300$, with an MSRP for both being around 250$) because of their mining performance.  

Then you add the fact that AMD is not getting a card refresh until Navi releases next summer, almost a full YEAR after nVidias Ampere/Turing/Volta (whatever they are calling them) - which hit this summer... and AMD already said Navi wont touch the high end, with their likely “best” Navi card hitting around 1070Ti performance (mind you, if they can hit MSRP, thatll be a 250$ card, so thats a major boon to people ona budget and by no means a bad card).

#53 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:26 PM

Do you actually disagree with the main points of my comment or are you just trying to more accurately define performance and remind me that MSRP is crazy inflated right now?

I've owned a 480, 1060 3 GB, 1070, 1080 Ti, Vega 56, and Vega Frontier Edition and used all of them for a combination of gaming and/or mining. I'm very aware of the current GPU market and the relative performance of each card. My post wasn't supposed to be some exhaustive comparison of AMD vs Nvidia in today's crazy GPU climate but rather just commenting on how if you are buying an eGPU for your Mac then getting an AMD GPU is a no-brainer for the following reasons:
  • First and most important reason: natively supported. Literally, just plug and play (AMD 400 series and up)
  • Nvidia Mac drivers seem to not be overly great (I'm basing this off of what I've been reading in the hackintosh subreddit where people are posting about weird issues with their Pascal cards and Nvidia's latest driver. I do not have any actual experience with this). I don't blame Nvidia for this one since there can't be that many people running external Nvidia cards in macOS.
  • AMD offers similar* performance to most of Nvidia's card below the 1080
Talk about MSRP, heat, etc. isn't that applicable since we are talking about external GPUs. You are already shelling out large amounts of money for a Mac + eGPU enclosure. If the extra $50-$100 for a 580 over a 1060 is a deal breaker for someone then I think they need to reconsider their thinking on the matter. Paying $50-$100 for native GPU support in macOS when you've already spent $2000+ on the setup is just the obvious choice. All of the eGPU reviews I've looked at (Razer Core V2, Gigabyte, Akito) have been perfectly happy with the temperature of the GPU in the eGPU chassis.

What I'm saying would completely change if this was a discussion about a GPU for putting in a gaming PC.

*similar: close to but not exactly the same. The Vega 56, for example, is definitely better than a 1070, but loses to a 1070 Ti. The V56 is the only reason the 1070 Ti exists.
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#54 macdude22

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:06 PM

eats popcorn while playing xbox

View PostSneaky Snake, on 24 April 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:


What I'm saying would completely change if this was a discussion about a GPU for putting in a gaming PC.


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#55 Tetsuya

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:16 PM

eGPU enclosures arent actually that expensive.  

Less than 100$, in a lot of cases.  

See here:

https://www.newegg.c...5-990-_-Product

Cheapest 1070 is around 480.. so 120$ or so for the external PCIe enclosure.  Not too bad, really.  

Given, you have to get one with the GPU in it for that price.  But you could resell the GPU for MSRP pretty easily.

#56 DirtyHarry50

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:12 PM

Hmm, Xbox One X is around $499. It even includes a very nice controller plus it comes with the computer part too.

Best of all, it’s everywhere I want to be, namely it’s under my television so I can play laying on my couch.

You guys should get one. You’ll love it. You can use the money you save to buy games! You can use the time you save to enjoy them!
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#57 macdude22

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:33 AM

I wouldn't get a box that's not on Apple's recommended list but I don't have time to be futzing around. I plan on clocking out at 40 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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#58 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:24 AM

Here is a good video showcasing a 15" MBP running fortnite with a Gigabyte eGPU box with an RX 580. Pretty crazy performance gains over the 560 inside the MBP. One thing that the youtuber notes is that you have to use an external monitor hooked up to the GPU in order to actually utilize the eGPU it seems.

If my work buys me a newer MBP with TB3 I'm definitely going to get a chassis like the Akito Node and try running my Vega 56 on the Macbook Pro.

https://www.youtube....h?v=dgFday9MrmA
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#59 ozzy

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:10 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 25 April 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Here is a good video showcasing a 15" MBP running fortnite with a Gigabyte eGPU box with an RX 580. Pretty crazy performance gains over the 560 inside the MBP. One thing that the youtuber notes is that you have to use an external monitor hooked up to the GPU in order to actually use the GPU it seems.

If my work buys me a newer MBP with TB3 I'm definitely going to get a chassis like the Akito Node and try running my Vega 56 on the Macbook Pro.

https://www.youtube....h?v=dgFday9MrmA

You can do this now with a simple enabler script to enable eGPU support on TB1/2 macs if you want. Performance slippage vs. TB3 isn't that much too be honest. No guarantee it will continue to work in future OS revisions, but this community is pretty good about updating patches to create work-arounds. Worth reading up here: https://egpu.io/foru...macos-10-13-4/. Note also, that this works fairly seamlessly for AMD eGPUs. Getting nVidia ones to work is much more problematic (although still possible) at the moment.

#60 Frost

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:22 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 24 April 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Hmm, Xbox One X is around $499. It even includes a very nice controller plus it comes with the computer part too.

Best of all, it's everywhere I want to be, namely it's under my television so I can play laying on my couch.

You guys should get one. You'll love it. You can use the money you save to buy games! You can use the time you save to enjoy them!
Shield fits in a little sleeve on my laptop bag and goes anywhere I want to go and connects back home to my PC which is a popsnizzleload more powerful than my Xbox One X. X1X I gotta have a big brick traveling with me that my laptop bag can't even hold by itself, nevermind going in a sleeve. Jus' sayin.'
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