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OpenGL / Metal / Vulkan for a (retro) gamer


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#1 dr.zeissler

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 11:41 AM

Hi there, I am currently checking the gfx-api's for mac and the games that support it or were patched to use them.
I am only interested in intel igp, not any dedicated gfx-cards.

< 10.11 32/64 OpenGL
> 10.11 32/64 OpenGL + Metal (1)
> 10.13 32/64 Metal (2) + OpenGL
> 10.14 32/64 Metal (2)
> 10.15 64 Metal (2)

Is this correct?

So talking about 10.11+ we are talking about intel HD-Series starting from HD3000.
HD3000 is opengl only, metal support is from HD4000 and above.

For a retro gamer like me, does the metal api, especial from the beginning in macos 10.11+
have any advantages, or should I stick to openGL?

I could not find any overview or comparison with games that got metal support via patch.

Feral did some metal-patches to games like Tombraider 2013 and Batman ArcamCity.
But these were perhaps Metal (2) patches that require 10.14+. I don't know why they did
not made them work on 10.13...but that could most likely be due to the macmini 2011
that has HD3000 and this had no metal-support.

Would be nice to get more information about that toppic...

Greetings
Doc

What games were ported to metal (1) and run from 10.11+ on intel gpu?
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#2 galad

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Posted 24 June 2020 - 06:00 AM

Each macOS version added many new features to Metal, even if there was no new big marketing number after it.

OpenGL is supported on every macOS version, even macOS on ARM will support it.

#3 dr.zeissler

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 06:45 AM

Did someone a test on intel gpu with opengl vs. metal on the same machine? i did!

Tombraider 2013 on MacMini (2012) i5 Dualcore 4GB 2,5Ghz @ 1024x768 Medium, Textures High

Benchmark on 10.14:
- 28fps OpenGL
- 23fps Metal

hmm... that's bad!

Actually I was thinking about my gaming Mini (2014 i7 3Ghz 16GB Ram Iris 1,5GB) that is actually on 10.11, but some games force me to install 10.12, some want me to install 10.13 (DeusEx-MKD), and some force me to install 10.14...

I think I can forget METAL on that machine because it will perhaps give me no advantage. So what about OpenGL ? Since 10.11 is OpenGL 4.1, are there newer drivers, better optimisations for my iris gpu? I do not have read anything about that.

Any suggestions?
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#4 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 09:05 AM

I think you'll have to play a few more titles to get an accurate representation of Metal's performance. Tomb Raider may just be an example of a lazy Metal port. Newer GPUs that better support modern frameworks should be able to get better performance in more modern games compared to "equally" powerful older cards.

OpenGL is on version 4.1 even on Catalina.

Ex: on my gaming PC while playing COD:MW. The 2070 Super and 5700XT give much better performance (10-15%) then my GTX 1080 Ti since those newer cards have much better DX12 optimization (COD:MW is DX12 only). In DX11 titles my 1080 Ti is same performance or slightly faster then those newer cards.
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#5 dr.zeissler

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 10:39 AM

Would be very interesting for me, if I get more benchmarks for intel igp's with opengl/metal1/2.
But I think looking forward to "AS" nobody is interested in such a comparison (beside me as a retro gamer).
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#6 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 12:28 PM

I believe most of Blizzard's Mac titles support Metal so older ones like SC2 and WoW could likely be tested using OpenGL vs Metal (assuming they still have the OpenGL version available for install for older macOS versions).
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#7 dr.zeissler

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Posted 07 July 2020 - 02:28 PM

Yes that should be possible..but blizzard has come a long way to treat their customers in a way that is not good.
I bought SC2 on the first day. It worked on 10.7.5 with ATI 2600/4850 and looked really good (reflections on models etc.)

Today I can't install it with my DVD anymore, it patches itself to a non working piece of crap. So no chance to play on classic
MacOS 10.7-10.9... you can install it directly over the internet with 10.11 but they tell you to upgrade to 10.14... So I am expecting that in a short while I cannot play it anymore...but guess what...I don't care anymore..why? it look BAD and UGLY on IntelIris. No reflections on models and laggy performance if I crank up the shaders even to medium...what? go and try harder.

therefore I cannot test openGL vs. Metal on that machine, because I need 10.13/10.14 to make a comparison. I don't expect getting reflections on metal with intel iris, so I will play it some time and if they kick me out with 10.11 I delete it...
iMac 27" Late 2012 3,4Ghz i7 NT 680MX
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#8 jeannot

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Posted Yesterday, 07:47 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 07 July 2020 - 09:05 AM, said:

I think you'll have to play a few more titles to get an accurate representation of Metal's performance. Tomb Raider may just be an example of a lazy Metal port.
In my case, performance in problematic areas, like the shantytown, increase by about 50% thanks to Metal. The benchmark tool is not representative of these areas.