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Bootcamp: The Death of Mac Games?


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#61 Space_Pirate_Killer

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:04 AM

Woah, who'da thought?  :o

Looks like all that effort of dual-booting Windows was a waste of time after all.
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#62 Tomatocow

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:26 AM

View PostSpace_Pirate_Killer, on April 6th 2006, 04:04 PM, said:

Woah, who'da thought?  :o

Looks like all that effort of dual-booting Windows was a waste of time after all.

You mean that $13,000 prize? Yeah I'm chuckling. chuckle --> :happy:

#63 Batcat

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:29 AM

You were the winner? :blink:

#64 Tomatocow

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:31 AM

View PostBatcat, on April 6th 2006, 04:29 PM, said:

You were the winner? :blink:

I can't even spell hacksore properly :blush:

#65 Tesseract

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:46 AM

View PostTomatocow, on April 6th 2006, 05:26 PM, said:

You mean that $13,000 prize? Yeah I'm chuckling. chuckle --> :happy:
What would really have been funny is if Apple had released Boot Camp a bit earlier and claimed the money themselves.  :lol:

#66 Space_Pirate_Killer

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:49 AM

View PostTesseract, on April 6th 2006, 12:46 AM, said:

What would really have been funny is if Apple had released Boot Camp a bit earlier and claimed the money themselves.  :lol:
:lol:

They can claim the $1500 driver prize. :D
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#67 mindnoise

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:46 AM

Mac games ,  XP games.... Bootcamp what the heck.


I frankly presume that Mac users still won´t get to play the range of games that use a certain
heavy licence physics engine, ever in OS X. And the older titles even more unlikely.


regs
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#68 DaveyJJ

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:07 AM

View Postmindnoise, on April 6th 2006, 06:46 AM, said:

I frankly presume that Mac users still won´t get to play the range of games that use a certain
heavy licence physics engine, ever in OS X.

Sorry, but that "physics engine" you're refering to runs very well on Intel Macs. If you're refering to the one used in Half-Life 2 and Age of Empires 3 that is. Runs very well. Was there another physics engine you were thinking of?

Or to put it another way ... HL2, RTW, Battlefield 2 and dozens of other top PC-only games have been reported as running superbly. And 'll post results of older titles like Arx Fatalis shortly.

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#69 Space_Pirate_Killer

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:09 AM

View Postmindnoise, on April 6th 2006, 03:46 AM, said:

Mac games ,  XP games.... Bootcamp what the heck.
I frankly presume that Mac users still won´t get to play the range of games that use a certain
heavy licence physics engine, ever in OS X. And the older titles even more unlikely.
regs
Uh, this runs Windows XP natively. I mean, I saw some posts in another Mac forum about playing CS:Source at 100+fps on Macbook Pros.
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#70 Tesseract

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:37 AM

Guys, mindnoise said "in OS X". Nobody is claiming that Havok-using games don't run under Windows on a Mactel. But it does give Havok another way to rationalise their actions re native Mac gaming.

#71 mindnoise

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:44 AM

View PostTesseract, on April 6th 2006, 04:37 AM, said:

Guys, mindnoise said "in OS X". Nobody is claiming that Havok-using games don't run under Windows on a Mactel. But it does give Havok another way to rationalise their actions re native Mac gaming.


thanks Tesseract for clearing that up for me!

Sorry to the others for being too elusive in my statement.
:)

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#72 the Battle Cat

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:47 AM

Hold onto your boots, I'm moving this to the new Dual Boot forum!
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#73 Eric5h5

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 09:02 AM

View PostBatcat, on April 5th 2006, 11:48 PM, said:

MS doesn't like it and limits support, but won't bust you.

That's what I'm saying...obviously using the word "legal" wasn't accurate.  The fact that you have to get some unrelated hardware dongle like a cable splitter or whatnot--that you're probably not even going to use--with the OEM copy in order to stay technically legal kind of proves my point though...the words "spirit" and "letter" are coming to mind here.  If someone really wants to do the right thing, just bite the bullet and get a properly supported boxed copy.  (On the other hand, if someone really really really wants to do the right thing, don't buy or pirate any copies of Windows at all....)

View Postmindnoise, on April 6th 2006, 09:44 AM, said:

Sorry to the others for being too elusive in my statement.
:)

Nothing to apologize for; "I frankly presume that Mac users still won't get to play the range of games that use a certain heavy licence physics engine, ever in OS X" is pretty darned obvious, to those of us who bothered to read the words.  ;)  However, I disagree.  See the "Havok workaround" thread for some speculations.  

--Eric

#74 DaveyJJ

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 10:51 AM

Apologies from me though. I mis-read "ever in OSX" as "ever on a Mac." Silly me. Just too excited about RTW.

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#75 Huntn

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 11:11 AM

View Postplacy, on April 5th 2006, 09:21 AM, said:

Wonderful; now we can have all the Mac forums cluttered up with Windows-XP crap...

:(

Well it will either be in this forum or the new WinXP forum so you can avoid it if you want to. :D
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View PostMacProject, on April 5th 2006, 10:41 AM, said:

I wonder what Aspyr and Feral think of this development.
Has Apple been forthcoming with developers (giving them advance news, etc) regarding the release of Boot Camp?

As Aspyr is doing a PC game, something tells me they either knew or were hedging.



View Poststevep63, on April 5th 2006, 12:12 PM, said:

I'm a die hard Mac user, who was dying to play the latest and greatest PC games that were not coming to the Mac due to middleware, such as Half Life 2 and Battlefield 2. I have a friend who is an expert at building PCs so he built my AMD machine for free. Here's the result:

1- PCs are NOT as cheap as everyone makes them out to be. Mine was well over $1900.00, and it's not as powerful, good-looking and reliable as today's Intel iMac. Plus, that $1900.00 cost doesn't include a monitor.

2- People, for those who don't use Windoze, it sucks. Seriously. I can't even count how many times a game that crashes has crashed THE WHOLE COMPUTER! This is NOT OSX folks, where crashing an app means all you have to do is restart the app. That sometimes works in Windoze, but usually it doesn't

3- I do NOTHING but play game on my PC. I don't even get email on my PC. I use my dual G5 for everything else, including playing Mac games (Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 is AWESOME, btw. Thanks Aspyr!). I had my PC for grand totoal of two weeks just playing games, when I got hit with over 400 spyware apps. I kid you not. And that was with Windoze' built-in firewall running.
See, from gaming on a PC, I know very well why console gaming took off; gaming on Windoze is FAR from perfect. Sometimes it downright sucks.

Lastly, speaking of consoles, there's some rumors that the PS3 might support mice for gaming. If this was true, it could spell the end for ALL computer gaming, both Mac and Windoze.

Personally, I have and will always buy the Mac version of the same game, even if it means waiting a bit. I plan on buying COD 2 even though I could play it right now on my pee cee. At least on my Mac, I know it'll WORK correctly the first time out and will CONTINUE to work correctly.

Long live Mac gaming!

-Steve J

Some comments

1. $1900 is inflated not counting a monitor. All you need is a 3 Mhz P4, a decent card, 1-2GB RAM which you can do for around a $1000.
2. Windows  does suck!
3. All I do with my Windows is games + a RC simulator not available for Macs.
4. If they get both mouse and keyboard support (Preferable 3rd party support like Nostromo N52) consols would be very tempting.
5. I'm keeping my Macs. :)

#76 teflon

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 11:12 AM

um... are you thinking of dreamfall?? or THPS american wasteland?? i think there are other issues that stop them from porting to mac, like not knowing the PC sales until after the game ships for PC, and wanting to have sure fire hits on the mac... or in the case of tony hawks, only having the distribution rights for the PC, the console versions are done by another company.

i wouldnt call that hedging.

especially seeing as Glenda said that she wanted to bring something totally original and new to mac, like dreamfall. Id love to see that happen.
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#77 Mister Mumbles

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 11:12 AM

Well, Aspyr has been dabbling with PC games for a bit already. I doubt it has anything to do with our current situation, though.

I'll be happy to buy a copy of Dreamfall from them. :)
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#78 Huntn

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 11:19 AM

View PostiRolley, on April 5th 2006, 01:27 PM, said:

I think Apple is betting that once a PC user buys a Mac, he will stick with MacOS and forget about Windows, just like we slowly forgot about OS9 once applications were ported to OSX or an equivalent application was released for OSX. It is a huge bet though. Very interesting.

I'd agree with that especially for those PC users who have specific programs they are not willing to give up and only run on WXP (not VPC).


View PostSmoke_Tetsu, on April 5th 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

I don't think this spells an end for mac gaming in general anymore than dual  booting with linux spells and end for linux gaming there are still a few AAA titles being released for Linux even though it tends to be the second additional OS. Now Windows will be the second additional OS and it'll take a person actually willing to pay the extra money and time needed to install windows in addition to OS X. So I think it's too soon to say it's just doom and gloom for mac gaming in general.

Alot of variables will impact this from how many gamers will mess with dual booting and how much it will cut into the profit margin of mac game porters. The question becomes is this the end of Mac gaming as we know is it or is it a big opportunity to integrate the Mac into mainstream computing, something that would make all Mac users very happy?
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#79 Batcat

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 01:55 PM

You seem to be almost willfully misreading me, Eric.

View PostBatcat, on April 5th 2006, 10:48 PM, said:

...MS doesn't like it and limits support, but won't bust you.

View PostEric5h5, on April 6th 2006, 10:02 AM, said:

That's what I'm saying...obviously using the word "legal" wasn't accurate.  The fact that you have to get some unrelated hardware dongle like a cable splitter or whatnot--that you're probably not even going to use--with the OEM copy in order to stay technically legal kind of proves my point though...the words "spirit" and "letter" are coming to mind here.  If someone really wants to do the right thing, just bite the bullet and get a properly supported boxed copy.
That's not the relevant part. Quoth para 2:

Quote

The OEM/System Integrator/builder deal is different. Most who build their own go that route, it is legal as long as you buy hardware with it (usually a motherboard, hard drive or CPU, but sometimes less), and it is supported. OEM copies of XP have a limited number of online activations before you have to call MS and get a new #, but it's not illegal. Newegg is the largest etailer in the world, not some fly-by-night operation and yes, I've read the docs.
People buy that gear because they become, in effect, one-man SIs. They have no warranty on what they build and are their own tech support. The hardware requirement is what MS requires for same. It is patently not illegal, immoral, or unethical to build your own and run Windows on it, any more than BIY and run Linux, x86 Solaris etc. Retail copies have unlimited installs/ online activations, but cost far more. BIYers will generally make that tradeoff.

Quote

(On the other hand, if someone really really really wants to do the right thing, don't buy or pirate any copies of Windows at all....)
Wouldn't be any bias showing here, would there, coloring analysis and judgement? ;)

#80 FortranDragon

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 02:27 PM

View Postdj phat 2000, on April 5th 2006, 03:57 PM, said:

I don't want to be negative about this, but lets see this for exactly what it is.  People WILL purchase a copy of Windows and install it on there Mac's.  They will consider playing the same games they have on the PC on there Mac's cause they can.  And once that starts to work "even good enough" remember Windows was always "good enough".  Open the flood gates my friends, for the end is nigh.  Unless pub's can push out games faster, I don't see much a chance.  I'd like to be proven wrong on this.

As someone that used to do a fair amount of dual-booting (Win2K & Win98SE), I can tell you that it quickly becomes a pain in the t ail.  It isn't convenient for quick pickup games and you start to find that you want something from your main OS.  You tend to find yourself living in one OS or the other.  It is nice for the occasional use, but constant dual-booting is only for the masochist.

Virtualization, on the other claw, could easily be a game development killer.  If Windows games are as easily and quick to run as Classic apps...