Jump to content


The Next Apple Event


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#21 mindnoise

mindnoise

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Steam ID:Exploding-Bob
  • Location:Delusive-Ville

Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:24 PM

View PostSpike, on 30 October 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well it is Optional, so for people that dont network with anything except the slower internet can get without.
I thought so.
it's just, sometime I lose track of following tech-development, so I was wondering If I was missing something here :D
hey, don´t worry - it´s only red pixels on your hands...
9 - Mac mini 8,1: i7, 8GB, 256GB SSD
8 - iPhone SE, 16GB
7- iPad Pro 12.9", WiFi 128GB
6- Mac mini 7,1: i5, 8GB
5- iPad Air, 16Gb
4- MacBook Pro 8,1:  i5, 8GB RAM
3- iPad 2, 16GB
2- iPod Touch 4G, 8GB
1- MacBook 1,1: 1,83GHz, intel GMA950, 2GB RAM
0-PowerMac 3,1: G4 with Sonnettech 1.2GHz Addon, Atto SCSI3 + 2x 15GB 15KRPM Fujitsu HDD
-> The (nearly) ultimate intel HD 3000 gaming performance sheet <-

#22 nick68k

nick68k

    Heroic

  • IMG Writers
  • 346 posts
  • Location:Not here. But close.

Posted 30 October 2018 - 03:37 PM

Physical possibility of Mac mini SSD user upgrades aside, would the T2 be a problem here?
You must gather your party before venturing forth.

#23 Tetsuya

Tetsuya

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2205 posts
  • Location:MI

Posted 30 October 2018 - 11:37 PM

Yeah... BTO'ing the base model gets you a six-core, 12-thread i7 for 1099.  Not too bad.  

Since i'd be using an external SSD for mass storage (and i already have those parts..)..

All i'd need to do is upgrade the RAM.  

Thats not bad for a seriously beefy machine.... basically the same price as one of the Intel NUCs with similar specs.

#24 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3979 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 31 October 2018 - 04:17 AM

View Postnick68k, on 30 October 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Physical possibility of Mac mini SSD user upgrades aside, would the T2 be a problem here?
Yes, the T2 is also the SSD controller, so I am guessing that swapping SSDs - Which are on a proprietary connector anyway - is a complete no-go.
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter

#25 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 31 October 2018 - 06:58 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 31 October 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

Yes, the T2 is also the SSD controller, so I am guessing that swapping SSDs - Which are on a proprietary connector anyway - is a complete no-go.

Storage on the new mini is soldered on, not a slot (proprietary or otherwise) so there's no replacing it. Macs with T2 hardware and removable storage can be swapped (iMac Pro), however the storage is encrypted with the hardware UID of the secure enclave. It cannot be decrypted without the T2 that encrypted it. If FileVault is turned on there is an additional user record required to unlock along with the hardware UID.

The real concern for the average person (or corporate shlub really) and T2 enabled Macs is to make damn sure there are backups. In the event of a hardware failure there's little to no opportunity for data recovery.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#26 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:34 AM

I hope OWC makes a Thunderbolt version of the Mini Stack, though to be fair USB 3 and SATA speeds are plenty for the average joe. I would like Envoy Pro EX performance in a stackable form factor.

Assuming apple follows through with this revision for a while they just made a really neat modular mac. It's plenty potent out of the box for any consumer but expandable for the prosumer or professional. I expect companies like Sonnet to come up with some innovative storage/GPU solutions (love my Echo 15)
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#27 Matt Diamond

Matt Diamond

    Uberspewer

  • IMG Writers
  • 2633 posts
  • Location:PA; US
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:21 PM

I am seriously considering getting a new mini with an eGPU, plus some kind of enclosure for my existing drives. It's not going to be cheap, but neither would a Mac Pro 2019. I'll try to hold out until we know more about the Pro. (Also, gaming benchmarks to tell me which Mini upgrades give the best bang for the buck.)

Question: if the Mini's internal SSD dies, how hosed would I be? With a Mac Pro you can start over with a brand new boot drive. I've had to do this twice over the years, plus a third time when I upgraded to SSD.
www.mindthecube.com

Current setup: macOS 10.11.x/2008 MacPro 3,1 Xeon 2 x 2.8GHz/8GB RAM/NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB

#28 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3979 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 01 November 2018 - 12:15 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 31 October 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Storage on the new mini is soldered on, not a slot (proprietary or otherwise) so there's no replacing it. Macs with T2 hardware and removable storage can be swapped (iMac Pro), however the storage is encrypted with the hardware UID of the secure enclave. It cannot be decrypted without the T2 that encrypted it. If FileVault is turned on there is an additional user record required to unlock along with the hardware UID.

The real concern for the average person (or corporate shlub really) and T2 enabled Macs is to make damn sure there are backups. In the event of a hardware failure there's little to no opportunity for data recovery.
Thanks for setting my ramblings straight.

Now, the 6 core CPU in the Mini may be acceptable. But is it useable for a 5 year gaming streak, and therefore to work as an xMac if one gets an eGPU?
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter

#29 nick68k

nick68k

    Heroic

  • IMG Writers
  • 346 posts
  • Location:Not here. But close.

Posted 01 November 2018 - 07:58 AM

What benefits does the T2 bring to a desktop system btw?
You must gather your party before venturing forth.

#30 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 01 November 2018 - 10:12 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 31 October 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:


Question: if the Mini's internal SSD dies, how hosed would I be? With a Mac Pro you can start over with a brand new boot drive. I've had to do this twice over the years, plus a third time when I upgraded to SSD.

Repair would require MLB replacement. We have 2000 macintosh endpoints, I've done every repair you can think of. I've never had to do a repair because the onboard storage failed on any model with onboard storage.

Assuming ONLY the storage had failed you could continue to use an external Thunderbolt or USB drive, but I think a more likely repair scenario would be some other failure necessitating MLB replacement anyway.

View Postnick68k, on 01 November 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

What benefits does the T2 bring to a desktop system btw?

From a practical home user perspective, hey siri.

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 01 November 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

Thanks for setting my ramblings straight.

Now, the 6 core CPU in the Mini may be acceptable. But is it useable for a 5 year gaming streak, and therefore to work as an xMac if one gets an eGPU?

If you don't have PC Master race epeen problems probably fine. I still game fine on a 2012 MBP so CPUwise it's had a longer streak than 5 years.

Assuming the 6core is in fact the i7-8700 as speculated (we should see real world info very soon) I expect it has chops for 5 years of just about anything.

http://browser.geekb...v4/cpu/10577538
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#31 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3979 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 01 November 2018 - 01:13 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 01 November 2018 - 10:12 AM, said:

If you don't have PC Master race epeen problems probably fine. I still game fine on a 2012 MBP so CPUwise it's had a longer streak than 5 years.

Assuming the 6core is in fact the i7-8700 as speculated (we should see real world info very soon) I expect it has chops for 5 years of just about anything.
None of that. I am quite happy with gaming on my 2011 iMac, but the graphic card has already failed once, so I have to plan ahead when it does so for the second time! But it would be nice to buy something that would stay up to date for a while, or at least be upgradeable.
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter

#32 Tetsuya

Tetsuya

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2205 posts
  • Location:MI

Posted 01 November 2018 - 04:20 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 01 November 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

Thanks for setting my ramblings straight.

Now, the 6 core CPU in the Mini may be acceptable. But is it useable for a 5 year gaming streak, and therefore to work as an xMac if one gets an eGPU?

I certainly expect to get 5+ years out of the 8600K in my gaming rig.  I see no reason why it wouldnt hold true for the one in the Mini.  It wont be as fast, obviously, but games aren't going to require 6 cores any time soon.  Most of the gaming market is on dual-core w/HT or low end locked quad core chips w/o.  

Right now, playable framerates at 1080p (60+) are achievable in most Triple-A games with a dual-core i3 w/HT or the quad-core HT-less i3, no problems.  Even the locked dual-core + HT Pentium Gold chips deliver pretty decent framerates on a super budget.

#33 Thain Esh Kelch

Thain Esh Kelch

    Admin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3979 posts
  • Steam ID:thaineshkelch
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 02 November 2018 - 07:09 AM

View PostTetsuya, on 01 November 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

I certainly expect to get 5+ years out of the 8600K in my gaming rig.  I see no reason why it wouldnt hold true for the one in the Mini.  It wont be as fast, obviously, but games aren't going to require 6 cores any time soon.  Most of the gaming market is on dual-core w/HT or low end locked quad core chips w/o.  

Right now, playable framerates at 1080p (60+) are achievable in most Triple-A games with a dual-core i3 w/HT or the quad-core HT-less i3, no problems.  Even the locked dual-core + HT Pentium Gold chips deliver pretty decent framerates on a super budget.
Interesting. So the base model might actually be sufficient for long term gaming, as long as one buys an eGPU, a screen, and potentially double the Minis price to get a 1TB SSD.. :P

Now we just need to see if it has thermal constraints under heavy prolonged CPU loads.
"They're everywhere!" -And now, time for some Legend of Zelda.

iMac 2011, quad 3,4Ghz i7, 1TB Samsung EVO 840, 8GB RAM, 2GB Radeon 6970m. + 2016 Macbook m3 + iPad 2 64GB + iPhone 4S 64GB + Girlfriend + Daughter

#34 mattw

mattw

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 875 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 11:28 AM

Not that many games benefit very much from keeping all their data on an SSD so you should be OK with the OS and key applications on there (which do benefit) and a large external disk for the games really.
Mac Pro 09 (now a 5.1, 2 x 3.06GHz Xeon X5675, 24GB, RX580 8GB, 480SSD, 16TB HD, MacOS 10.14

#35 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 02 November 2018 - 03:11 PM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 02 November 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

Interesting. So the base model might actually be sufficient for long term gaming, as long as one buys an eGPU, a screen, and potentially double the Minis price to get a 1TB SSD.. :P

Now we just need to see if it has thermal constraints under heavy prolonged CPU loads.

OWC had Micron 2TB SATA drives for 295. I nabbed one of those and an enclosure. I'm not ESPN so SATA ssd speeds will be fine for me.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#36 mindnoise

mindnoise

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Steam ID:Exploding-Bob
  • Location:Delusive-Ville

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:18 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 02 November 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

OWC had Micron 2TB SATA drives for 295. I nabbed one of those and an enclosure. I'm not ESPN so SATA ssd speeds will be fine for me.

I was wondering to go that route, too. Anybody know how much bigger the 'CPU-strain' of USB3.1 Gen2 vs Thunderbolt is? Even with UASP, USB has never been good with multi-access but since Gen2 is actually full duplex might be worth a shot.
I need at least 400GB of SSD and I am definitely not giving Apple 480Euros extra.


Is there any advantge of keeping the core MacOS on the internal SSD and and have all personalized Users-Data, sym-linked  onto an external SSD?
Right now, on my mini 2014, I have the whole system on an external TB1/2 LaCie Rugged -7K-HDD anyway (because I was too lazy to replace the internal 5400-RPM HDD).
hey, don´t worry - it´s only red pixels on your hands...
9 - Mac mini 8,1: i7, 8GB, 256GB SSD
8 - iPhone SE, 16GB
7- iPad Pro 12.9", WiFi 128GB
6- Mac mini 7,1: i5, 8GB
5- iPad Air, 16Gb
4- MacBook Pro 8,1:  i5, 8GB RAM
3- iPad 2, 16GB
2- iPod Touch 4G, 8GB
1- MacBook 1,1: 1,83GHz, intel GMA950, 2GB RAM
0-PowerMac 3,1: G4 with Sonnettech 1.2GHz Addon, Atto SCSI3 + 2x 15GB 15KRPM Fujitsu HDD
-> The (nearly) ultimate intel HD 3000 gaming performance sheet <-

#37 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:12 AM

I will let you know how it goes. I have done the Home folder symlink dance and it's great until it's not great lol. I would prefer to be simple and keep my home folder on the boot volume (even if it's external USB). Use the 128GB onboard for scratch space or toss a few frequently used apps in there etc...

Even with UASP I think USB 3 will be constrained by random I/O and I/O queue depth. With heavy I/O I suspect a SATA drive capable of sustained 500 MB/s r/w would drop to 250-300. For the average mortal this is still fast and the average mortal probably wouldn't have I/O needs that drive down the performance of USB 3. If I was doing a lot of Photo, audio, video editing or development I would probably spring for something thunderbolt like the Envoy Pro EX

https://eshop.macsal...x-thunderbolt-3

Still half the price of Apple's offering, though it is half the speed. Exponentially faster than a SATA drive slaved to USB regardless.

I never thought I would see the day where we would say ehhhh well 1800MB/s is half as fast as that other thing. Honestly even a few years ago 2TB of 1800MB/s storage for under a grand would have sounded like science fiction.

I am still debating on if I want the i7 upgrade or not. The i3 is already SO much faster than my 2008 MacPro or 2011 Mini I doubt I'd know the difference. I think if it turns out the 8GB base memory comes on 1 stick as rumored I'll get the upgraded CPU since an upgrade to 16GB would only cost 1 8GB stick then.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#38 mindnoise

mindnoise

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Steam ID:Exploding-Bob
  • Location:Delusive-Ville

Posted 03 November 2018 - 08:41 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 03 November 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

I will let you know how it goes.

I am still debating on if I want the i7 upgrade or not. The i3 is already SO much faster than my 2008 MacPro or 2011 Mini I doubt I'd know the difference. I think if it turns out the 8GB base memory comes on 1 stick as rumored I'll get the upgraded CPU since an upgrade to 16GB would only cost 1 8GB stick then.

Thanks a lot for the insight! macdude and confirming my thoughts. :)

As audio recording/mixing is my business the i7 upgrade is a must for me, running all those realtime VST/AU plugins in a mixing session eats up CPU-Cycles pretty quick. And I want to get at least 6 years out of the mini. I don't need too much graphic power.
hey, don´t worry - it´s only red pixels on your hands...
9 - Mac mini 8,1: i7, 8GB, 256GB SSD
8 - iPhone SE, 16GB
7- iPad Pro 12.9", WiFi 128GB
6- Mac mini 7,1: i5, 8GB
5- iPad Air, 16Gb
4- MacBook Pro 8,1:  i5, 8GB RAM
3- iPad 2, 16GB
2- iPod Touch 4G, 8GB
1- MacBook 1,1: 1,83GHz, intel GMA950, 2GB RAM
0-PowerMac 3,1: G4 with Sonnettech 1.2GHz Addon, Atto SCSI3 + 2x 15GB 15KRPM Fujitsu HDD
-> The (nearly) ultimate intel HD 3000 gaming performance sheet <-

#39 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2153 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 03 November 2018 - 04:51 PM

Ya, I'm replacing my 2012 quad at work with the i7 model fo sure. Replacing my mini at home, not so sure.

Regarding SSD in external enclosure, out of the box with nothing running the Micron tests at 385 MB/s write and 365 MB/s read with Aja System Test 16GB test. Blackmagic tested almost identical.

I cloned my internal rust (1TB firecuda) to this 2TB Micron drive in a Mercury On-The-Go enclosure, booted to it, and did the following

kicked off several downloads in steam, gog, and origin.
forced spotlight reindex
kicked off copy of photo library from external rust to Micron Drive in MOTG.

We should have the CPU and disk I/O going pretty good at this point.

I then reran the Aja 16GB test

268 MB/s write and 265 MB/s read.

I know what you are saying. macdude22 how do you have USB 3 speeds on a 2011 mini. Well IMGsan I have a Sonnet Echo Thunderbolt Dock which has USB 3 so it has the effect of having USB 3 ports available on a 2011 mini. Given this thing is almost always CPU pegged these days I couldn't say if I'm hitting a CPU bottleneck with USB, if I am the performance can only go up from this baseline.

I would surmise I am hammering this drive harder than most average consumers would so I offer that a SATA SSD in a quality USB 3 enclosure would be more than sufficient as a boot drive for most. Given the nature of USB vs TB I would still use thunderbolt storage for any sort of professional endeavor but as discussed you can still get pretty fast storage performance at half the apple cost. An ESPN moving around 4k video probably would still benefit from the pricy but supreme internal storage options.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#40 mindnoise

mindnoise

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 714 posts
  • Steam ID:Exploding-Bob
  • Location:Delusive-Ville

Posted 04 November 2018 - 07:36 AM

I decided use my Lacie Rugged TB case and get a TB2/TB3 Adapter and a Samsung 850 1TB SSD as system drive, that's costing me €200.
And if I need something better I can still upgrade later.

But I think I might still opt for the internal 256GB Version, anyway, since 128GB is just not enough to do anything serious with it.
Who knows what happens down the road I have planned for this device and I like at least to have options.
hey, don´t worry - it´s only red pixels on your hands...
9 - Mac mini 8,1: i7, 8GB, 256GB SSD
8 - iPhone SE, 16GB
7- iPad Pro 12.9", WiFi 128GB
6- Mac mini 7,1: i5, 8GB
5- iPad Air, 16Gb
4- MacBook Pro 8,1:  i5, 8GB RAM
3- iPad 2, 16GB
2- iPod Touch 4G, 8GB
1- MacBook 1,1: 1,83GHz, intel GMA950, 2GB RAM
0-PowerMac 3,1: G4 with Sonnettech 1.2GHz Addon, Atto SCSI3 + 2x 15GB 15KRPM Fujitsu HDD
-> The (nearly) ultimate intel HD 3000 gaming performance sheet <-