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New iMac - Revenge of the Chin


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#41 Matt Diamond

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 10:10 PM

View PostTetsuya, on 04 May 2021 - 06:19 PM, said:

Ive owned Macs longer than youve been alive, most likely
Unlikely. Next time you feel like saying something like that, remember that this is the internet. No matter what the topic is, someone nearby has been into it longer than you.

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Every other forum im part of has an ignore feature.  Is there one here that i missed?
We do things the old-fashioned way here. If you want to ignore someone, you have to do it with your brain. I've only managed it a couple times, but it feels great when I pull it off.


Everyone, please keep in mind that we have this same fight every time Apple announces a new consumer Mac. This isn't a rogue-like-- you don't level up by doing the same thing 100 times.
The only reason I haven't locked this thread yet is it makes me look bad in front of the boss.

Debate is fine, the personal attacks are not. And if you find yourself repeating yourself, to the same people no less, it's time to move on to a new topic.

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#42 Janichsan

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 12:44 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 04 May 2021 - 10:10 PM, said:

Everyone, please keep in mind that we have this same fight every time Apple announces a new consumer Mac.
I think the issue is that when we equal "not upgradeable" and "not repairable" with "consumer", every Mac is a "consumer Mac" with the sole exception of the Mac Pro.

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#43 Matt Diamond

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 06:18 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 05 May 2021 - 12:44 AM, said:

I think the issue is that when we equal "not upgradeable" and "not repairable" with "consumer", every Mac is a "consumer Mac" with the sole exception of the Mac Pro.
That's a good point. They've had some pretty powerful machines that aren't upgradeable. My son's iMac was pretty good when it first came out.. But being able to replace the GPU would give it a longer shelf life, if he was a serious gamer.

It's ironic that unsatisfied Mac gamers often buy a console, which is also non-upgradeable. :-)

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#44 Janichsan

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 07:01 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 05 May 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

It's ironic that unsatisfied Mac gamers often buy a console, which is also non-upgradeable. :-)
I could very easily replace my PS4's original HDD with an SSD.

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#45 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 05 May 2021 - 10:08 AM

View PostTetsuya, on 04 May 2021 - 06:19 PM, said:

Ive owned Macs longer than youve been alive

What possible basis do you have for making that statement? And does you owning Macs for a longtime somehow give you more authority on the topic? Macdude is in high level IT managing thousands of Macs in an enterprise setting. He's given me some great advice and wisdom in my IT career. I assume he's being around Macs for a while. He is allowed to have a different perspective from you and allowed to disagree with you.

A few things I'll respond to that you've said:
"The iMac really needed something better than the M1 to make it worthwhile over the Mini + a much better external display than the iMac."

Here you ignore the fact that the base iMac and the larger iMac have been two completely different products for years now. A larger, more performance orientated iMac is coming. This product (24" iMac) has never and will never be this high performance upgradeable enterprise workstation that you seem to want it to be. Compared to the mini, you are paying for the 4.5K DCI-P3 screen, great speakers, webcam, peripherals, and less footprint/wires (compared to a mini+monitor)

Also, it sounds like maybe the Mac Mini would be the better product for you. That doesn't mean the 24" iMac is bad for everyone.

"If that’s “the way” going forward [referring to new iMac having unified SoC], then likely that'll be the end of Macs for me."

Were you expecting this to not be the way? Why would they have suddenly changed their whole chip design methodology for the base iMac when we already saw exactly what it was for the 13" MBA/MBP and Mac Mini? A unified SoC has a huge list of advantages such as vastly improved latency, power consumption, cooling, size, unified memory pool - which leads to higher performance, etc. One thing it does not have is user upgradeability.

The 21.5" iMac that this model replaces was not upgradeable in any real way - unless you consider a multi-hour job that requires removing the screen and logic board as something that is a real option.

"Locked-in RAM and/or paying Apple’s mind-shatteringly high prices to upgrade it well past what is necessary when you buy it (like, the only way to deal with it would be if i could get 32GB of RAM on a machine now - oh, but you cant!) is a deal killer for me."

I found this sentence extremely interesting. Here you seem to be implying that 32GB of RAM is absolutely minimum required to get any sort of extended lifespan out of your PC. If we were discussing workstation PC's that are meant for CAD/Editing/Compiling then I would agree - but we are not talking about a machine meant for any of those things. Can you provide some data for home/family use computers needing 32GB of RAM at a bare minimum?

Memory also doesn't really work the same as the Intel machines. See this video comparing the 8GB vs 16GB M1 for very heavy tasks such as Final Cut Pro, Logic, Xcode. You'll notice that even though the 16GB model is indeed faster for some of those memory heavy tasks, the 8GB model still performs absolutely fine. If  you remove those very heavy memory tasks (which home users are not going to be doing) then the 8GB performs identical to the 16GB and the 16GB is simply wasted money.

"
Id love it if my Apple products weren’t artifically-shortened-lifespan’ed eWaste waiting to happen."

Just pure hyperbole and is the statement that started this whole thing off. The only people that replace their computers somewhat often are power users. Guess what this iMac is not targeting in the slightest: power users. This new iMac is the perfect machine for its target demographic. Things like near-silent operation, amazing speakers, colour options/aesthetic, improved webcam are all things that the average consumer buying a family computer values (ex: your kid doing school over Zoom. Zero fan noise means fans aren't being picked up in the mic, better mics means the teacher can hear your kid better, better speakers means your kid can hear the teacher better).

My wife is using her 2011 Macbook Air with a popsnizzlety intel dual core and 4GB of RAM totally fine 10 years later. I've asked her many times if she wants a new computer and she absolutely does not. I would bet massive sums of money that the 8GB M1 Macs will be completely fine in 10 years for their target demographic.

Again, to summarize it all up. You make excellent points about the negatives, however you ignore all of the positives and place demands on this product that it simply isn't trying to meet. When you make hyperbolic statements that have no basis in reality don't be surprised when people respond accordingly.

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