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Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module, ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!

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#1 UmarOMC1

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 12:09 AM

Radeon Pro W5700X MPX Module

…is now available as a standalone purchase via the Apple Store for the ridiculously low price of ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS! But wait! There's more! Double the memory of all the other Radeon 5700/5700XT cards, four Thunderbolt 3 ports and an HDMI 2.0 port! Take a gander at the pics! Four PCI slots wide! I really think Apple realized how unstable their OS becomes with off the shelf add-in cards—this thing's got COOLING GALORE and redefines the genre of THICC GPUs!!! WHY are you still reading this!? Get yours NOW!
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#2 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 08:32 AM

Sorry, I went broke getting the 700$ wheels.
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#3 the Battle Cat

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 12:20 PM

Sorry, I already unloaded my spare grand on the iMask.

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#4 Tetsuya

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 02:12 AM

Not sure what the complaint is?

Pro GPU with signed drivers costs more than commercial consumer GPU?  

News at 11?

The Quadro equivalent of this is 900$ and only has 8GB of RAM (and an awful blower cooler, doesn't support 3 5K displays, etc)

So....

This is really a non-issue.  This is about right on for a Pro Level card of this power, with this much RAM, that display out support and build quality.

#5 macdude22

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 10:59 AM

Today on People who hate Macs but come to IMG for some reason.
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#6 UmarOMC1

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 08:50 PM

Get your facts straight—Apple, I hate Apple.
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#7 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 12:29 PM

How unstable is the Mac Pro with an off the shelf 5700 XT ? I've seen a bunch of videos of people using them and haven't heard anyone complain about driver issues. 10.15.1 added native support for the Navi cards.
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#8 UmarOMC1

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 09:53 PM

What might they using the cards for? Are they using them in 2019 MacPros? Are they doing heavy gaming with them? Unfortunately most AIB non-blower 5700s are tall cards (the smaller Radeon VII fits in the 2019 MacPro a lot more comfortably), the molex cables definitely squeeze against the case when I enclose it. What I find is that the OS hangs heavily at random times after putting in some time gaming. I'll wait the excruciating penalty time to launch Console in an attempt to troubleshoot and see things along the lines of the process "WindowServer' with the message; "GPU driver for display 0x1c815034 appears to be hung (6 continuous seconds of unreadiness)" et alia. Should I expect the same after rendering complex scenes?

I think the fins on the heat sinks of the GPU, running perpendicular to the air flow of the tight case, leave so little room for air/heat dissipation it might be causing the GPU to overheat enough to [not completely?] lock up the computer (in most cases, I've experienced the rare hang-into-a-reboot which I'm grateful is a lot more rare). The MPX design is a lot better suited for heat dissipation but…a thousand dollars for what's probably only minimally better performance than off the shelf 5700XTs only because of thermals? It'd be more cost effective to buy two off the shelf 5700XTs. Then again I was experiencing this with the Radeon VII as well…at least I get a boot screen with the 5700XT.

I wonder if there's a recycling program for all the Radeon 'Pro' 580X MPX cards? I'm going to go search for those videos. Thanks.
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#9 the Battle Cat

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 10:32 AM

View Postmacdude22, on 20 April 2020 - 10:59 AM, said:

Today on People who hate Macs but come to IMG for some reason.

I don't hate Macs!  I love Macs!  it's you I hate.  Besides, I'll put topical humor with a grain of truth above Mac love any day.  A cat's got to know his priorities.
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#10 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 11:44 AM

You could look into a blower design 5700 XT. It will exhuast the hot air out the back of case, in line with the rest of Mac Pro's airflow.

This is the video I was thinking of that he puts a 5700XT into the Mac:

He doesn't test gaming in macOS, but he does try it in bootcamp (with good results) and also Parallels (with bad results). SnazzyLabs has some pretty good videos up on the new Mac Pro and also a lot of hackintosh content.
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#11 Tetsuya

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 12:58 PM

View Postthe Battle Cat, on 22 April 2020 - 10:32 AM, said:

I don't hate Macs!  I love Macs!  it's you I hate.  

I dont know how to say this..... but you said the quiet part out loud.

#12 Tetsuya

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 01:07 PM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 21 April 2020 - 09:53 PM, said:

What might they using the cards for? Are they using them in 2019 MacPros? Are they doing heavy gaming with them? Unfortunately most AIB non-blower 5700s are tall cards (the smaller Radeon VII fits in the 2019 MacPro a lot more comfortably), the molex cables definitely squeeze against the case when I enclose it. What I find is that the OS hangs heavily at random times after putting in some time gaming. I'll wait the excruciating penalty time to launch Console in an attempt to troubleshoot and see things along the lines of the process "WindowServer' with the message; "GPU driver for display 0x1c815034 appears to be hung (6 continuous seconds of unreadiness)" et alia. Should I expect the same after rendering complex scenes?

Not if you were using signed drivers and a pro GPU, no.  

Quote

I think the fins on the heat sinks of the GPU, running perpendicular to the air flow of the tight case, leave so little room for air/heat dissipation it might be causing the GPU to overheat enough to [not completely?] lock up the computer (in most cases, I've experienced the rare hang-into-a-reboot which I'm grateful is a lot more rare). The MPX design is a lot better suited for heat dissipation but…a thousand dollars for what's probably only minimally better performance than off the shelf 5700XTs only because of thermals?

No, not only because of thermals.  Because its a Pro card for pro uses and not gaming.  It has a much larger RAM buffer, has error correction algorithms, and pro level signed drivers.  

Its the exact same reason why an RTX Quadro 4000 (which is the exact same base GPU silicon as an RTX 2070) costs almost 900$, and a 2070 cost ~450$.  

Its why the Titan-equivalent Quadro costs 6k.  

Hell, the "PC" version the W5700 (non-X) - is 800$, with 8GB of RAM and a stock blower cooler.  

https://www.bhphotov.....<br /><br />A

An extra 200$ for a custom-fit solution with more VRAM, higher clocks, and Thunderbolt 3 support seems right in line. (And actually, those TB3 controllers are quite expensive, apparently).

#13 UmarOMC1

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 03:08 PM

Oh I'm sorry, then wtf am I using to run the computer with full acceleration without APPLE'S SIGNED DRIVERS!? This isn't an NVIDIA CARD the drivers ARE BUILT INTO THE OS.

Are there videos where the "Pro" GPUs outperform their equivalent off the shelf counterparts? It's the same damned chipset and GDDR6 memory, nothing on Apple's page state it uses GDDR6 ECC memory.

HERE YOU GO. A FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR Quadro RTX video card that does not outperform a dual Titan RTX setup which costs less save for rare instances—yep, Pro medical imaging.

Cue the broken record "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'"


I was able to buy a 2009 MacPro and keep it running without much headache for over ten years and the thing maybe cost about $2500 base. I upgraded the CPU, GPU, RAM and Apple wasn't pulling this proprietary bullsht, no "But, 'pro…'" BULLSHT. I apologize for not being that much of a fanboi, I should be grateful they offer ANY PCIe slots at ALL because then I'd have fanbois yelling that I shouldn't expect to use anything but MPX cards because "But, 'pro…'" I'm so sorry I didn't just get an iMacPro because I should be happy with whatever sht GPU Apple places in there because I shouldn't be toying around with what I own. I just shouldn't question Apple logic or…Think Different. I know, who am I to question a trillion dollar company…if I don't own a studio doing "But, 'pro…'" stuff I shouldn't even own a MacPro. Woe is me.
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(my 'world of hurt' that my kids built in a day & is easier to maintain than Windows)

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#14 UmarOMC1

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 03:47 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 22 April 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

You could look into a blower design 5700 XT. It will exhuast the hot air out the back of case, in line with the rest of Mac Pro's airflow.

This is the video I was thinking of that he puts a 5700XT into the Mac: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZUADicY-ko[/media]

He doesn't test gaming in macOS, but he does try it in bootcamp (with good results) and also Parallels (with bad results). SnazzyLabs has some pretty good videos up on the new Mac Pro and also a lot of hackintosh content.
Oh yeah I've seen that video before (and a lot of his videos, some might not believe it but I actually did a lot of homework before pissing my wife off with this purchase! lol). He makes a lot of good points. I do think the blower design would unfortunately be better. Unfortunate because I'm finding out the hard way that the 2019 MacPro's case and fan design don't seem to play nice with heat dissipation for off the shelf cards.

I know, I know "But, 'pro…'"
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#15 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 03:58 PM

Most "Pro" cases (Mac Pro, PC OEM workstations from Dell/HP, servers, etc.) all use a very linear air flow system similar to the Mac Pro's.

That being said, I wouldn't see why temps would necessarily be bad with a more traditional consumer GPU cooling setup. Are you able to see the temps (should be easy if you are bootcamp and install RealTemp)? As long as the card is staying below its max temp of 110 C (at the thermal junction) it won't thermal throttle, and I can't see it being that hot. Something else might be the issue.
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#16 Tetsuya

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 05:33 PM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 22 April 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

Oh I'm sorry, then wtf am I using to run the computer with full acceleration without APPLE'S SIGNED DRIVERS!? This isn't an NVIDIA CARD the drivers ARE BUILT INTO THE OS.

And are still made by AMD, not Apple.  

If they aren't pro level drivers, errors can creep it, crashes can happen, and the integrity of the results is not guaranteed.  For a prosumer, maybe this doesn't matter.  For anyone who relies on this for work where accuracy matters, its vitally important.  

Quote

Are there videos where the "Pro" GPUs outperform their equivalent off the shelf counterparts? It's the same damned chipset and GDDR6 memory, nothing on Apple's page state it uses GDDR6 ECC memory.

It doesn't have ECC memory, that im aware of.  Error Correction in this case is handled by redundant rechecks of work at the driver level.  

Quote

HERE YOU GO. A FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR Quadro RTX video card that does not outperform a dual Titan RTX setup which costs less save for rare instances—yep, Pro medical imaging.

Cue the broken record "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'" "But, 'pro…'"

You dont even seem to grasp what pro cards are USED for.  You dont need Quadros for Video work.  Never have.  Not ever.  Thats actually SPECIFICALLY why nVidia separated Titan from the consumer stack and placed it between the consumer stack and Pro stack as its own product range.  All you need for video compiling like that is CUDA cores.  Which is what TITAN is for now.  Which is also why Titan has signed and certified drivers and costs TWICE what a 2080Ti does, despite being literally the exact same GPU (with like, 1 extra GB of VRAM).  

If all you're doing is basic video editing, you are not the target audience for a Pro card.  

Intricate 3D modelling?  CAD where even being a thousandth of a millimeter off can mean an entire multi-billion dollar project goes up in smoke?  Working with massive data sets and machine learning?  Scientific research?  Anything where data integrity is 10000% essential to the job?  

Quote

I was able to buy a 2009 MacPro and keep it running without much headache for over ten years and the thing maybe cost about $2500 base. I upgraded the CPU, GPU, RAM and Apple wasn't pulling this proprietary bullsht, no "But, 'pro…'" BULLSHT. I apologize for not being that much of a fanboi, I should be grateful they offer ANY PCIe slots at ALL because then I'd have fanbois yelling that I shouldn't expect to use anything but MPX cards because "But, 'pro…'" I'm so sorry I didn't just get an iMacPro because I should be happy with whatever sht GPU Apple places in there because I shouldn't be toying around with what I own. I just shouldn't question Apple logic or…Think Different. I know, who am I to question a trillion dollar company…if I don't own a studio doing "But, 'pro…'" stuff I shouldn't even own a MacPro. Woe is me.

This has nothing to do with Apple.  At all.  

I have no idea why you even think that.  

Quadro's are Pro cards.  They dont even work in Apple machines.  They, also, are literally the exact same silicon as their consumer counterparts in most cases.  And yet they cost 2-3x as much.  This is not an Apple specific "issue".  AMD makes workstation cards for PCs.  They ALSO cost more than their consumer counterparts despite being the same exact silicon in most cases (2-3x as much).  This is not an "Apple thing"

Its not fanboyism.  Thats just your projecting your crap attitude, and the silly thing is you are laying this at the feet of Apple who quite literally has nothing to do with it.  Pro cards cost more.  Full stop.  Apple or not.  Windows or not.  Why would Apple offer non-Workstation cards for their workstations?  They dont support gaming, so that's right out.

You came here to whinge about Apple deploying a Pro-level card, at almost ZERO markup over the Non-Apple version, AND its better than said Non-Apple version.  Apple isn't even tacking on their usual 'Apple Tax' here - you're paying an extra 200$ for a bespoke design, DOUBLE the VRAM, higher clock speeds and more unlocked cores (more than the W5700, but 4 less than the 5700XT, which has no "Pro" equivalent, Apples new card being the closest thing) and 3 Thunderbolt 3 controllers.  Thats... they basically just tacked their costs on, and nothing else.  Thats a damn miracle in Apple Land.

Edited by Janichsan, 26 April 2020 - 05:55 AM.
Stop making it personal.


#17 macdude22

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 08:23 PM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 22 April 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

I shouldn't even own a MacPro.

Finally you are getting it

Edited by Janichsan, 26 April 2020 - 05:56 AM.
Stop making it personal.

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#18 UmarOMC1

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 10:02 PM

"Pro level drivers" makes no sense—are there pro level drivers for ECC RAM? Where are "pro level" macOS GPU drivers downloaded from? How is the manufacturer the one responsible for signed drivers when Apple is the one that does the signing? Hence the NVIDIA debacle… maybe I'm wrong, or 'RONG' lol, but I believe those signed drivers can be found in System > Library > Extensions
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(my 'world of hurt' that my kids built in a day & is easier to maintain than Windows)

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#19 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 06:29 AM

Umar, you're so close to understand you should either build a hackintosh, or buy/build a PC and switch to Windows. Trust me, I've been there before. ;) For some people and usages, Apple simply doesn't have a compelling hardware offer anymore (and in some cases software too), and there's no other way than looking for alternatives (which obviously have their drawbacks too, like everything).

#20 Atticus

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 07:51 AM

Yeah, at some point an arbitrary allegiance to a brand/platform is actually preventing you from doing something you enjoy--gaming. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face! Just get a gaming PC. I did a long time ago, and haven't regretted it once. And I've been playing a lot of great games. :-)
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