Jump to content


WoW - Should I buy it?


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#61 Homey

Homey

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 294 posts
  • Location:Springfield

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:30 PM

Whaleman, on February 11th 2005, 03:59 AM, said:

Excuse me while I laugh for while...

have you ever seen real RPG character building before? Like Shadowbane, or any D&D based game? What WoW has is an extremely stripped down character development that doesn't really have much choice at all. Now this is probably a wise decision as not everybody wants to plan their character for several hours... but do not claim that it has "such a huge variety"... because it doesn't.

View Post

Good god, did I pee in your Wheaties or something?  What a snippy response to such a plain statement.  Damn...

Anyway, to your "point":

I haven't seen Shadowbane because I took people's word that it sucks.  I wish it didn't because I was looking forward to it, but oh well.  As for D&D games, I've played NWN and Baldur's, and those suffer from the same affliction D&D has always had, which is terrible differentiation between characters within classes (all fighters play the same, all thieves play the same, etc).  So if you consider SB and D&D to be on par, then SB doesn't look so hot.  As for WoW, the base classes are similar to every other game, but when you add in class skills (dozens) and talents (dozens), characters within classes can be built to play in different ways.  If you don't want to call this a "huge" variety, fine, but it's better than any D&D game.  Did SB's version of character development make the game any more fun to play?  Apparently not, considering WoW is 10x the size, and SB has been shrinking.  WoW's system works because as you level, you do have a lot of choices in specializing, and those choices actually affect how you play your character.  For example, there's more to differentiate each rogue than just the weapons they use.  The numerous talents and skills they've chosen along the way determine the tactics they use in battle, and that's exactly the way an RPG should work.  All the guys I play with--who have experience in Asheron's, DAoC, and EQ (both)--prefer WoW's character development.  Even if WoW doesn't have the absolute largest variety, it has a lot, and it works very well.  If anyone doubts this, go to the WoW forums and see all the questions people have about their choices in developing their characters.  Look at all the possible talent builds for each class and see if that's enough variety for you.  If not, find a game you like better.  I won't pee in your Wheaties over it.

Whale, if you'd like to continue this discussion on the merits of various games' character systems, fine.  I'd actually like to know why you consider SB to be so much better despite its faltering popularity.  And how do you consider WoW's large, though maybe not huge, number of skills and talents not to provide *any* variety?  But if you can't do it without acting like we're enemies, then I'm done with you.

#62 Whaleman

Whaleman

    High Priest of Bork

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5632 posts
  • Steam ID:holybork
  • Location:The Land of Bork
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 15 February 2005 - 04:24 AM

Homey, on February 15th 2005, 03:30 AM, said:

Whale, if you'd like to continue this discussion on the merits of various games' character systems, fine.  I'd actually like to know why you consider SB to be so much better despite its faltering popularity.  And how do you consider WoW's large, though maybe not huge, number of skills and talents not to provide *any* variety?  But if you can't do it without acting like we're enemies, then I'm done with you.

View Post


Did you ever play a D&D game? I know very few who play a plain fighter, or a plain rogue or anything. The strong character variation in D&D comes from multiclassing, the way that you can get several class skills at once. Thanks to this, there's an almost infinite number of pure class description combinations. If you want a fighter/mage/druid, it is quite possible... even though some combinations are better than others. Then you have prestige classes, and a much larger variety of skills and feats than WoW even is close to breathing at.

I never sais that Shadowbane was a better game, but as far as characters go, it's close to as variable as D&D. Maybe even more so because you have to choose directions for your character to develop. You start as one class, that can branch out in a number of secondary classes... which in their turn can branch into even finer professions. (now don't nitpick me if I get the names wrong).

In WoW, you pick you class. And then at level 10, you select your path down the talent tree, and there's seldom that many combination to pick from in the end. And class skills are bought, so as long as you can afford them all, you don't get any different from anybody else.

I'm not saying this is a bad decision, since it does ease things up for people new to role-playing games. But what I do say that your comment that "There's just such a huge variety in character-building choices" is only correct while you compare it to shooters or any game but an RPG.

And if you thought my last reply was insulting in any way, please forgive me. I never meant to insult you, it was that you were trying to point out something that I have seen as complete opposite to what it is. I have always seen WoW's character development as limited and that this is one of the minor flaws in the game.. so when you try to claim the exact oposite, it's hard not to laugh about it.
You shouldn't ask yourself such worthless questions. Aim higher. Try this: why am I here? Why do I exist, and what is my purpose in this universe?

(Answers: 'Cause you are. 'Cause you do. 'Cause I got a shotgun, and you ain't got one.)

***END MESSAGE***

#63 SilentBobCDN

SilentBobCDN

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • Location:Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Posted 15 February 2005 - 05:38 PM

Without reading the past couple pages of this thread. Im going to agree with Whale here. I think WoW is pretty limited in terms of its character development. Sure theres some variation among classes, but i dont think its feasible if I want to play a Fighter-Mage. From what I remember in the beta, theres ways a mage can be more of a 'militant mage' but thats about it. Now looking at NWN, wow, you can be a dual classed fighter mage.

'Course, i didnt buy it thinking that its something its not. Its a game. I had fun during the beta. and im betting 49.99CDN that ill have fun in the real game.

If I want some more indepth RPG's ill go play NWN (have to figure out scripting.. cant seem to be able to install the PRC hakpak, btw. if anyone has had experience installing this with neveredit .8, send me a PM).

#64 machineman

machineman

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 11:00 AM

xcman22, on February 15th 2005, 08:52 AM, said:

This past weekend at our weekly poker game my friends and I were talking about WoW. I'll spare everyone the details, except to say none of us will be buying it anytime soon.

Why will you not be buying it any time soon?

You are only depriving yourself of what I can only describe one of the top 5 games of all time, and for it to be available on the Mac is a huge bonus.

Why would you avoid this?

#65 xcman22

xcman22

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 213 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 01:14 PM

I was kinda hoping someone would ask me this. I have four reasons as to why I will NEVER own this game. In no particular order whatsoever, they are:

1)-My computer isn't really fast enough to enjoy it. I am on a 733 G4, ATI 7500 32 MB, 256 RAM, and roughly 60 gigs of space. Although I have read reports of the game running on playable levels on a system similar to mine, I am somewhat skeptical of my ability to really enjoy the game as I should be. I am not willing right now to spend the extra cash to upgrade my system just for WoW. Why? That leads us to reason #2....

2)-I am on a tight budget. Having entered the "real" world in September, I have come to realize just how important every dollar I earn is. I don't make very much money, and I have things like car payments, cell phone bills, internet bills, car insurance, rent, and various other expenses. While I udnerstand the cost of this game and the various factors involved(Pay less for more time), I quite frankly do not have the money to be spending on a video game besides a one time purchasing cost. Also, spending money on something so addicting wouldn't be great for me, which goes right into #3...

3)-I would become instantly addicted to this game. Period. I loved Diablo II, even though looking back at it I totally agree with the many complaints about it being click and point, hack and slash, boring, whatever. I will fully admit Diablo II has it's faults-but I love it anyway. For five years I have been extremely addicted to that game, and it has taken me insane hours playing it to finally be tired of Diablo II. Working an 8-6 job, I can't really allow myself to get that involved in WoW, which by all acocutns is a FANTASTIC game. I know I would love it. I know what would happen to me if I played. I know that, while I wouldn't need medical help or have to join an addiciton therapy group, it would also cut too much into my free time, which I like to spend sleeping, running, playing basketball, and, of course, poker. However, the biggest reason I will NEVER get this game is...

4)-I will never spend money on a game that requires a monthly payment. I know people have made comments about not bashing WoW simply due to the payment structure-if you don't like it, don't play it. I am in agreement-I think, from everything I have read and seen, WoW is a very good game. However, I will simply never-no matter how good the game is-pay for a game that requires me to pay on a monthly basis as well as a original purchasing cost. This is what my friends and I all agreed with-that we just didn't think that ANY game, regardless of how good it may or may not be, is worth that kind of investemnt. Take Diablo II for example-I bought that game five years ago as well as the expansion, and the cost of me enjoying that game over that length of time is ridiculously small compared to the same time/money potentially spent on WoW. I never have to worry about paying my bill to play a game-if the spirit moves me, I just put the cd in the drive, and I'm off. Last night I finally finished one of the hardest single player maps in Heroes of Might and Magic III Complete. It's called Reclaimation(I think), and if anyone has played that level you know what I mean. That game is awesome, and has lots of replayability. I spent 30 bucks on that game, and I've had it for awhile now. The math works out the same anyway you cut it-I am paying less for games that I can enjoy as much or more without paying a monthly fee. There is simply no way ANYONE can convince me that paying a monthly fee for a VIDEO GAME is acceptible-no way whatsoever.

#66 gbafan

gbafan

    Heroic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 395 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 02:15 PM

xcman22, on February 18th 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

I was kinda hoping someone would ask me this. I have four reasons as to why I will NEVER own this game. In no particular order whatsoever, they are:
<snip/>

View Post

Good points, well done.   And I think I'm starting to agree with those who don't like paying monthly for games...  :(
Advocate for consumer friendly DRM.

#67 machineman

machineman

    Fan

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 04:21 PM

xcman22, on February 18th 2005, 12:14 PM, said:

4)-I will never spend money on a game that requires a monthly payment. I know people have made comments about not bashing WoW simply due to the payment structure-if you don't like it, don't play it. I am in agreement-I think, from everything I have read and seen, WoW is a very good game. However, I will simply never-no matter how good the game is-pay for a game that requires me to pay on a monthly basis as well as a original purchasing cost. This is what my friends and I all agreed with-that we just didn't think that ANY game, regardless of how good it may or may not be, is worth that kind of investemnt. Take Diablo II for example-I bought that game five years ago as well as the expansion, and the cost of me enjoying that game over that length of time is ridiculously small compared to the same time/money potentially spent on WoW. I never have to worry about paying my bill to play a game-if the spirit moves me, I just put the cd in the drive, and I'm off. Last night I finally finished one of the hardest single player maps in Heroes of Might and Magic III Complete. It's called Reclaimation(I think), and if anyone has played that level you know what I mean. That game is awesome, and has lots of replayability. I spent 30 bucks on that game, and I've had it for awhile now. The math works out the same anyway you cut it-I am paying less for games that I can enjoy as much or more without paying a monthly fee. There is simply no way ANYONE can convince me that paying a monthly fee for a VIDEO GAME is acceptible-no way whatsoever.

Understood...valid points for sure... I think the MMO companies need to show a more defnitive reason for a monthly fee, such as a constantly (daily?) updated content and world events system or somethihg.

But if you look at it, the cost is only about .49 per day, or about .02 per hour to play the game...that also is very cheap. Perhaps a model they could come out with is "pay for what you play" whereas if you only play 10 minutes that month, you only pay for 10 minuntes... you play 70 hours, you pay for 70 hours.

#68 xcman22

xcman22

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 213 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 05:21 PM

Excellent point-if divided by cost per hour, WoW is very cheap, and considering how good this game is, I think most reasonable people would be willing to purchase the game.

However, and this is in no way a perosnal attack on you or anyone who pays for this game, it is my opinion that there is NO WAY that WoW can win in a cost effectiveness argument when compared to any game that does not require a monthly fee-regardless of whatever pricing plan eventually comes into play or how "Jesus" the game may be. To demonstrate my point, I will be using a "long" math explination and a "short" math explination (In case you haven't noticed I've given a LOT of thought into this-probably way too much).

To start I will will compare Diablo II to WoW. Yes, I know, they aren't the same-one is a MMO, cost of servers, WoW is the best game ever, etc etc etc. However, I need to compare the game to something tangible, and since I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to compare the gamestyle of Diablo II to WoW, I'm going to do just that.

Doing some basic calculations, I figured out the total cost for playing Diablo II and WoW over a two year period. I have excluded the free month you get, plus any compenstaed time for server issues, because while both of those reduce the cost of WoW they don't do enough to change my point. Also, I am assuming BOTH games cost $70-Diablo II and the expansion added up to about that, and while WoW doesn't have an expansion, I think there is a chance WoW will have one. Maybe. Just maybe. Here is the math:

Diablo II: $70(purchase cost) for 24 months. Cost per month=$2.92
WoW:      $70(purchase cost) + $30.76(4 consecutive six month plans)=$100.76 total cost.
Cost per month=$4.20

Wow, you are probably saying, this kid is real smart. Look at that HUGE price difference per month! A whopping $1.28! While the difference may not be so big to you, there are some other factors:

-The cost of playing Diablo II will always DECREASE over time.
-The cost of playing WoW will always INCREASE over time.

Also, let's not forget that you must have relatively high speed internet access in order to enjoy WoW. I fully understand that many of us are blessed to have our parents pay for our internet, whether through home use or those huge tutiton costs so we can attend an institution of higher learning. Nevertheless, the fact that you MUST have high speed internet to play, let alone enjoy, WoW makes the cost higher then that of Daiblo II, where I can definitely attest that I happily enjoyed playing by myself for most of the two month period.

Anyway that's the LONG explination. The SHORT explination goes like this:

Any game that has a purchase cost PLUS a monthly fee will ALWAYS cost more then a game with JUST a purchase cost.

So long as that logic holds true, I will never purchase WoW.

#69 NeoWolf

NeoWolf

    Heroic

  • IMG Pro Users
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 364 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 06:14 PM

xcman22, on February 18th 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

....
Also, let's not forget that you must have relatively high speed internet access in order to enjoy WoW. I fully understand that many of us are blessed to have our parents pay for our internet, whether through home use or those huge tutiton costs so we can attend an institution of higher learning. Nevertheless, the fact that you MUST have high speed internet to play, let alone enjoy, WoW makes the cost higher then that of Daiblo II, where I can definitely attest that I happily enjoyed playing by myself for most of the two month period.

Anyway that's the LONG explination. The SHORT explination goes like this:

Any game that has a purchase cost PLUS a monthly fee will ALWAYS cost more then a game with JUST a purchase cost.

So long as that logic holds true, I will never purchase WoW.

View Post


First off, let me just thank you for not being one of the countless people that decide that the game itself sucks for being pay to play.  :lol:

I just thought I'd comment, even though you've probably had it pointed out though that one of the reasons you keep paying is because they keep doing more with the game. Aside from bug fixes they're going to keep adding in more and more content to the game. So although you are going to be paying more at least your money is going to something.

Secondly, I'll speak up as a dial-up user and WoW player that it works just fine. The only problem I've run into is having to wait a couple hours for major updates to download. I play just as fine as anyone else on a better connection.

#70 xcman22

xcman22

    Notorious

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 213 posts

Posted 18 February 2005 - 07:17 PM

Excellent points once again. I will grant that part of the extra cost in paying for WoW goes twoards the development of the game, something which I'm sure adds to the excitement and overall coolness of it in general. Clearly the extra cost is going for a good purpose, and the very nature of the game makes comparing it to Diablo II or other similar games not exactly the easiest thing in the world. I was trying to look at it from a pure cost comparasion, because clearly if you include the added development and content to WoW the argument becomes more and more complex.

That is AWESOME that you have had such great success with dial-up! More power to you if you can find a cheap way around the potentially high cost of the internet requirement. As for me not bashing the game simply because you have to pay a monthly fee, I really do think this game is an awesome game. I HAVE played it, although briefly, but from what I have seen and read, this game is fantastic. I am not saying that people who pay to play are morons, nor am I saying that WoW is a bad game because of it-I am simply trying to express why I personally have chosen not to play.

As for the cable argument...you'll forgive me if I'm not completely sold on that idea. First of all, I don't think comparing your cable access to a video game is exactly a reasonable comparison. While both provide entertainment, I don't think anyone would argue that cable access and a video game are the same thing-in fact they are completely different in what they ARE, and in many ways in what they DO. WoW is cheaper then your basic cable bill, let alone premium channels, and if you don't mind local TV ( If I wasn't addicted to ESPN and Law And Order, I'd stay with local TV) then it would seem a no-brainer. However, cable tv pricing is based on a LOT of different things then why WoW's monthly fee is what it is, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. I mean, besides the profit aspect, there's plently of reasons why cable is as expensive as it is per month, and I don't really see a connection between those reasons and the reasons why someone would pay to play WoW. I'm not saying they are totally different, as they share entertainment value. I'm just saying that I don't feel comparing the mothly fee of a video game and a monthly fee of cable TV is a just explination for paying for WoW, as they are different enough in my mind to not be reasonably comparable.

That being said, in the end it's all about having fun. If you have fun playing WoW, and you can afford it or justify it somehow, then by all means please enjoy it! While my poker crew and I are against getting it for ourselves, two of my former roommates LOVE it , and they have very good judgement when it comes to things like this-maybe not in their taste of women or what clothes to wear, but hey-we aren't all perfect<wink>. Anyway, it's time for said poker game, so if you'll all excuse me, I have some chips to win!

BrownieMix