103 replies to this topic

[Cougar]

Frost, on 05 June 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

In all this, I am mainly happy that the Best Damn MacBook Pro Ever made the cut again after the big dump of older Macs. Iridium lives on! If it's survived this cull, it's likely still good for another couple years at least. I'll probably finish what's left of consolidating all of my business tasks onto this one machine and budget for swapping out the 2TB 850 Pro for a 4TB 860 Pro soon. That's my only real problem with this machine is I need more capacity. I haven't yet moved all my data over from Cypher, my finally-decommissioned PowerMac G5, and that would let me do that. That'll tide me over till maybe future MacBook Pros can hold 4TB and have real keyboards again.

Looks like my parents are getting dumped by Mojave soon though (unsurprisingly, a 2010 Mac mini and Late 2011 MacBook Pro are ancient at this point). I expect I'll be getting upgrade questions later this year.

It looks like the cutoff this year is Metal support. I can't think of a similar cutoff for the near future, so I bet your Best Damn MacBook Pro Ever will continue to get updates for a while.

[Janichsan]

jeannot, on 05 June 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

On the other hand, some quickdraw APIs have been flagged as deprecated for years, so has quicktime.

Both in fact will finally go the way of the dodo with macOS 10.15 as part of the 32-bit culling.

[Frost]

Janichsan, on 05 June 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Both in fact will finally go the way of the dodo with macOS 10.15 as part of the 32-bit culling.

Staying with the California theme, they should make it macOS 10.15 Earthquake. All the older apps come crashing down.

[ipickert55]

Frost, on 05 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

Staying with the California theme, they should make it macOS 10.15 Earthquake. All the older apps come crashing down.

What about 10.15 "The Entire Damn State is on Fire"?

[ltcommander.data]

Cougar, on 05 June 2018 - 01:56 PM, said:

It looks like the cutoff this year is Metal support. I can't think of a similar cutoff for the near future, so I bet your Best Damn MacBook Pro Ever will continue to get updates for a while.

https://developer.ap...4?language=objc
https://developer.ap...1?language=objc

Interestingly, up to now all Metal compatible GPUs on Mac have been treated as one family with the same feature-set, but this year Apple is introducing new features for all Mac Metal GPUs as GPUFamily1_v4 and also offering exclusive features for newer Metal GPUs in GPUFamily2_v1. No idea which GPUs qualify as GPUFamily2, but it probably corresponds to Direct3D feature level 12 compatible GPUs like AMD GCN 2 and Intel Skylake or better. Hopefully it'll be a few years before Apple actually requires Metal GPUFamily2.

[Cougar]

ipickert55, on 05 June 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

What about 10.15 "The Entire Damn State is on Fire"?

10.16, "Nobody can afford housing, not even software engineers that make six figures, because shacks in silicon valley cost 1.5M+ and NIMBYs don't want to build more."

That one probably strikes too close to home.

[ipickert55]

Cougar, on 06 June 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

10.16, "Nobody can afford housing, not even software engineers that make six figures, because shacks in silicon valley cost 1.5M+ and NIMBYs don't want to build more."

That one probably strikes too close to home.

I'm dreading the day when I have to go find housing. Way too close to home.

[Tetsuya]

ipickert55, on 05 June 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

What about 10.15 "The Entire Damn State is on Fire"?

Doesnt have the same ring to it.  “Earthquake” is bold, quick, and evocative.

[ipickert55]

Tetsuya, on 06 June 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

Doesnt have the same ring to it.  "Earthquake" is bold, quick, and evocative.

Much like fire in California.

[Tetsuya]

ipickert55, on 06 June 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

Much like fire in California.

How about “Wildfire”?  That rolls off the tongue better.

[Frost]

Tetsuya, on 07 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

How about "Wildfire"?  That rolls off the tongue better.

10.16 can be Wildfire. After 10.15 breaks all the 32-bit apps, 10.16 can make a bunch of weird API changes and break half the legacy 64-bit apps. Burn down what's left!

We can collectively refer to the two as "Shake n' Bake."

[Thain Esh Kelch]

I want 128 bit apps.

And my 2011 iMac didn't make the cut, boohoo. Runs perfectly though. Oh well, those 7 years was an amazing run I must say, and I still have a huge backlog anyway, so I will keep using it for several years more, or until its GPU dies for good. (It is still going on after 1,5 years from a reflow in the oven!)

[Frigidman™]

Its a real shame Apple doesn't ever want to hunker down and simply refine and clean up the OSX they got... instead they push a whole new update, that breaks more things, goes slower, runs worse, and has stupid features only a moron would like.

[Frost]

Frigidman™, on 11 June 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Its a real shame Apple doesn't ever want to hunker down and simply refine and clean up the OSX they got... instead they push a whole new update, that breaks more things, goes slower, runs worse, and has stupid features only a moron would like.

I mean, they kind of did get the OS back on track with Sierra, which is finally why I upgraded from Mavericks as both Yosemite and El Cap were slowsauce in comparison to Mavericks. Sierra got boot times and other things back down within striking distance of Mavericks, finally.

Unfortunately they may be veering off into inefficiencyland again.

[jeannot]

High Sierra runs just as well as Sierra on my Macs.

Frigidman™, on 11 June 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Its a real shame Apple doesn't ever want to hunker down and simply refine and clean up the OSX they got... instead they push a whole new update, that breaks more things, goes slower, runs worse, and has stupid features only a moron would like.

Isn't removing 32-bit and openGL support a "cleanup"?
And what would those "stupid features" be?

[Janichsan]

jeannot, on 11 June 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

High Sierra runs just as well as Sierra on my Macs.

Performancewise, High Sierra is fine for me. But there are… so… many… bugs…

Quote

Isn't removing 32-bit and openGL support a "cleanup"?

That's only a cleanup in the way that an amputation of the legs is a solution for dirty feet.

Especially dropping OpenGL as a open, widely accepted, and adopted standard, (even if this is not necessarily immediately imminent) will do more damage than good.

[Sneaky Snake]

I'm looking forward to the quick editing features on Mojave. Fight me

[macdude22]

"widely accepted, and adopted standard" doesn't mean we should still use it. VGA is widely accepted and adopted. It's kind of all been a slow downhill burn after SGI. Microsoft has DirectX and Apple has Metal. Kronos has been pushing Vulkan but there is basically 0 uptake. Apple killing off OpenGL they haven't updated for 3 years anyway is doing us a favor.

[Janichsan]

macdude22, on 12 June 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

"widely accepted, and adopted standard" doesn't mean we should still use it. VGA is widely accepted and adopted.

Not a good analogy as VGA as analog interface has become outdated when digital interfaces became ubiqituous. OpenGL however might be old, but it still has uses and is still developed: the latest revision is less than a year old. Vulkan never was supposed to be a replacement for OpenGL, but an alternative when you really need to squeeze out the last bit of performance.

And as I said before: removing OpenGL will break many non-game applications for which platform specific, proprietary graphics APIs are no alternative.

[macdude22]

Janichsan, on 12 June 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

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And as I said before: removing OpenGL will break many non-game applications for which platform specific, proprietary graphics APIs are no alternative.

I am intimately aware of this fact. We have many folks doing work that relies on GPU acceleration, both locally and in our high performance GPU cluster. I don't expect the bulk of tools we are using to be updated to support Metal natively. It's more probably we will see increased investment in tools like MoltenGL to act as an intermediary layer between tools targeting OpenGL and the OS native metal tools.