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#41 Tetsuya

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Posted 24 May 2021 - 06:52 PM

View PostCougar, on 24 May 2021 - 05:51 PM, said:

There's a reason Apple chooses 4.5K for 24", 27" 5K, and 28" This way, everything is pixel doubled and scales perfectly. I have a 27" 4K monitor at work and a 24" 4K at home, and I vastly prefer the 24". At work the monitor UI ends up being just a bit too big. If I scale the UI, it's not as crisp.

I think you're using "Pixel Doubled" to mean something it literally doesn't mean.  

4.5K isnt pixel-doubled anything.  its 4480 x 2520.  (so it would be a "doubled" 2240 x 1260... which is not a real resolution used by anyone).  The only reason they are using it is because they decided they wanted higher-than-strictly-Retina PPI.  Is it sharper?  Sure.  But it isn't a pixel-doubled anything.  

5k IS a doubled resolution - its 2560x1440 doubled (5120x2880).  

Pixel-doubled 1080p is UHD - 3480x2160.  

All "Retina" means is "you cant see the individual pixels" - thats Apples definition.  

On a 27" monitor, unless you are a hunchback who forces your face forward over your desk towards your monitor and have it pulled too close to you (which is all sorts of bad for you in lots of other ways), you're not sitting close enough to see individual pixels since you'd need to be closer than 20", and if you're sitting that close you need to back the hell up for your own physical and eye health.  

Again, im not saying Apple's displays aren't "sharper" - they are, as they are the same size or smaller and have a higher PPI.  

Im saying that 1440p @ 27" at the healthy distance to sit from your monitor fits Apples own definition of Retina.  4k @ 27" is WELL over Apples own definition at any distance other than "sitting unhealthily close by cramming my face into my monitor".  

And 27" 4K 144hz VRR IPS displays ("retina game display") now exist for a ... fairly reasonable price at that.  And that the hardware to drive them still doesn't exist so they are largely something youd buy now and sit on for another two generations of hardware to even get full use out of it.  

I wont even get into the really gritty details (ive had this argument before on other forums) right now/until/unless it becomes necessary to go dig up that post and mine it for the links - but science has also pretty much proven that unless you have eyesight in the top 5-7% of the entire human race, any perceived difference beyond "i cant see the pixels" is going to be extremely slight (Yes it is sharper, can i quantify it? No, it just looks a little sharper, mostly) and unless you have those eyes, the difference is often something your brain is inventing because you expect it to be better.  

Again, this is not saying it isnt sharper and isnt perceptibly sharper to people even with bad eyes, its just not enough of a difference to be quantifiable to most people beyond "that looks a little better" and in a lot of tests (LTT did a test recently and most people couldnt even tell the difference between 1440p and 4k) people will guess completely wrong as to what resolution was what.

#42 Cougar

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Posted 24 May 2021 - 07:06 PM

What I meant by "pixel doubled" (or 200%, what windows calls it) is that the scaled retina resolution 1:1 maps to the display's native resolution. My 24" 4K scales perfectly because it's 4x 1080p. The UI is the same size as 1080p, but it's 4x as crisp. Take that same resolution on a 27" and you get a UI that's just a bit too large at standard viewing distance, and if you scale it by anything less than 200%, it's no longer native and you introduce blurriness. That's all I was trying to say.

I also want Apple to increase the resolution in their laptops for this reason. They used to use native 1:1 scaling by default but that results in very little screen real estate, so they changed it to a non-native scaled option. I keep my laptop open next to my 24" and the difference in clarity, especially with text, is jarring.

I do concede that for gaming that it probably makes very little difference (but games on it do look super crisp). I just want one monitor that can handle everything.

#43 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 26 May 2021 - 10:41 AM

I'm fairly certain that the 4.5K screen is just a "pixel doubled" version of that old 1080p 21.5" iMac, with a slightly higher resolution to make up for the larger screen. The 21.5" iMac had a "pixel doubled" 4K option so they likely wanted to keep the PPI the same while increasing the screen size slightly.

Same way the 16" MBP has the odd 3072x1920 as its resolution, which is a slight bump over the 2880x1800 that the 15" MBP had, which was a "pixel doubled" version of the old 1440x900 MBP's.

Resolution is just a number anyways. It doesn't have to be some specific multiple of a traditional 16:9 resolution. Many laptops on both the Mac and PC side that use aspect ratios other then 16:9 have "strange" resolutions. (Ex: 1920x1280, 2256x1504, 3840x2400, 2736x1824 are all resolutions that exist on popular laptops from HP, LG, Microsoft, etc.)

Quote

Again, this is not saying it isnt sharper and isnt perceptibly sharper to people even with bad eyes, its just not enough of a difference to be quantifiable to most people beyond "that looks a little better" and in a lot of tests (LTT did a test recently and most people couldn't even tell the difference between 1440p and 4k) people will guess completely wrong as to what resolution was what.

I assume you are referring to this video? The premise of that video is that 4K is kinda of dumb for gaming. Framerate was also in play, (144Hz on the 1440p vs 60Hz on the 4K) which biased the gaming argument heavily towards the 1440p monitor. If they compared a 144Hz 4K monitor with a 144Hz 1440p I'm certain most people would prefer the 4K monitor as long as they are sitting within 32" or so of the screen. (32" is where the benefits of 4K start to become visible compared to 1440p on a 27" display).

I fully agree that resolution is just part of the equation though. Other things like colour quality, viewing angles, screen size, refresh rate all can make a massive difference in the experience - depending on what one is doing with the display. Colour to me is one of the most important parts of the screen. I don't need a super high end 100% DCI-P3 display but I do need one that is at least 100% sRGB and has little to no backlight bleed and colour banding. If those things exist then is just completely ruins the display for me in nearly 100% of the things I use the screen for.  Different use cases demand different monitor specs.

Basic stuff like reading/consuming large amounts of text is much nicer on a 4K display. For that reason I vastly prefer reading longer documents on my laptop screen or iPad compared to my 27" 1440p monitor.

Another use case for high resolution is video editing. I frequently work with multicam footage and have to sync up 4+ video tracks with a single audio source. Being able to have 4 video thumbnails on screen that have around ~2.2x more pixel detail for each thumbnail makes things much easier compared to my 1440p screen. I can simply lean forward or pull the monitor closer to my face (which is on a mounting arm) if I want to see the additional detail that 4K allows, and then I can simply move it back to comfortable distance once the detail work is done.
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#44 Cougar

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 12:03 AM

So I just got an order in unexpectedly for a 27GP950, and it came unexpectedly fast. Have a few issues, though, that I am not sure how to resolve. This is my first high refresh rate monitor.

In macOS:
  • I'm limited to 60hz, even with a USB C to DisplayPort 1.4 cable. (I have a 2017 15" MBP). I don't think my Radeon Pro supports DSC, and apparently the 2017's Thunderbolt controller is limited to DP 1.2. I'll be upgrading soon anyway.
  • The DisplayPort connection is really finicky. Last night everything was working fine, but this morning, trying to wake it up from sleep, or switching inputs, I have to unplug and replug the cable to get it to work. Not sure what to try other than a new cable...? This happens both with a Thunderbolt 3 dock and directly connected to the computer. This might be a dealbreaker if I can't fix it.
In Windows:
  • I'm limited to 120hz. I'm using the HDMI 2.1 cable from the box with a 3080, so I'm not sure what's happening there.
  • I'm not sure how to tell if Gsync is working. The Nvidia control panel says it isn't Gsync compatible, which isn't true. However, it lets me check the Gsync checkbox and it does say "Freesync Extended," so maybe it's OK? (In macOS it says "Extended Adaptive Sync").
  • EDIT: Apparently HDMI 2.1 is rather worthless on PCs. It's inherently limited to 120hz, and Gsync support only works with some things. Switched to Displayport, and I have 4K 144 and Gsync enabled. This means I'll have to get a USB C to HDMI cable for the MBP, but hopefully that will also fix my connection issues.
Other observations:
  • The bezel less, logo-less design is amazing. LG rationalizes it by slapping their logo on the stand, but since I'm using an arm...no logo except on the back (which is hideous due to the RGB ring, but it's the back...)
  • The backlight bleed is much worse than my P2415Q. I don't really mind because I don't notice in macOS or in dark games, just in black loading screens, and I will not be watching movies on this. Still, hurry up OLED monitors, please.
  • Toggling input is more cumbersome than on my P2415Q. Wish it had a dedicated input button, or even better, auto detected inputs. Apparently the GN did this...?
  • I can hear the fan if there's little ambient noise. I think I can live with it as the sound is subtle and not annoying, but still disappointing.


#45 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 10:02 PM

Really nice monitor. I've been eyeing up monitors with those specs. Also, congrats on snagging a 3080. I've been trying for months to get one but haven't been able to (I have gotten my hands on a 3070 in the meantime)
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#46 Cougar

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Posted 29 May 2021 - 11:49 PM

Thanks. I got it in October when it was “easy.” What worked for me was using a Discord Distill.io tracker, and use Apple Pay in the Newegg app to bypass the cart step. Got the monitor with a Discord tracker as well.

#47 Frost

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Posted 30 May 2021 - 06:03 PM

As an aside regarding monitors, I always thought ultrawides were a gimmick... I got an XG350R-C in last fall to try out for a couple weeks just to see what it was like.

I'm still using it. :D

21:9 gaming is something else.
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#48 UmarOMC1

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Posted 30 May 2021 - 08:47 PM

View PostCougar, on 29 May 2021 - 11:49 PM, said:

Thanks. I got it in October when it was "easy." What worked for me was using a Discord Distill.io tracker, and use Apple Pay in the Newegg app to bypass the cart step. Got the monitor with a Discord tracker as well.
Would you mind a step-by-step for us old folk?
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#49 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 31 May 2021 - 12:10 AM

View PostFrost, on 30 May 2021 - 06:03 PM, said:

21:9 gaming is something else.

I have one too (HP OMEN X 35 and love it), but sadly many games don't support this resolution properly (like 95% of Unity based games, mostly indie games). What happens is they blow up the image to fill the width, and in doing so cut off the top and bottom parts of the image where often there's the HUD or this kind of thing so it's obvious. Otherwise it's not so obvious, except when you compare with regular WQHD and you can notice you lost part of the image.

Other games stretch the image horizontally so it feels the width, but is deformed like often happened when 4:3 displays were still common and not all games supported the wider 16:9 resolutions.

But when the game supports extra wide properly, it rocks!

View PostSneaky Snake, on 29 May 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

Also, congrats on snagging a 3080. I've been trying for months to get one but haven't been able to (I have gotten my hands on a 3070 in the meantime)

I couldn't get any yet. Now it's even more difficult because I only want a Founder's Edition, the only ones sold at a good price. No way I'm going to pay 1.5 or 2x the price the card should have. Here they're sold about once a month and get sold up in 2 mn (also the site is swamped so even if you're very fast, it's mostly luck based).

#50 Cougar

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Posted 31 May 2021 - 11:01 AM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 30 May 2021 - 08:47 PM, said:

Would you mind a step-by-step for us old folk?

1. Download and register for Discord if you haven't already. Be sure to download the iOS app too so you get notifications there.
2. Add yourself to the Stockdrops.net server.
3. Agree to the rules.
4. Click #alert-signup under "Welcome," and add notifications for the products in you're interested, in the appropriate region.
5. Download and install the Newegg and Best Buy apps on your iPhone or iPad. This lets you use Apple Pay to speed up the checkout process. Yes, the difference can matter.

There's also a "How to Use StockDrops.net" YouTube video if you need further help.

There are lot of similar servers out there, so if StockDrops isn't working for you it's worth poking around. I think This is the one that I used for my 3080, but unlike StockDrops I don't think you can specify a region. I can't find the one I used for my monitor; it was generically called Tech Deals.

#51 Cougar

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Posted 01 June 2021 - 12:10 PM

Monitor update: I really like this monitor. I've played Torment and A Plague Tale so far. I think I "get" high refresh now. Torment was buttery smooth at 144, Plague Tale was 100-110, but
it was even more impressive as a 3D game. I see more detail than I did from my P2415Q too.

On macOS, I changed the scaling to "looks like 1440p" and it actually looks...good? The PPI is worse than my "looks like 1680x1050" MBP, but it looks just as good from my viewing distance. I can still tell that it's not as sharp as my work 5K Ultrafine, but I think I prefer the real estate. So maybe I am contradicting myself from my earlier posts...

The DisplayPort issue was an unfortunately timed cable failure...it also doesn't work with my other monitor. The USB C to DisplayPort cable I got for the MBP is working great, even with my TB3 dock.

I have noticed a small downside with the tiny bezels: If I fully seat my webcam on the monitor, it acts as a screen "notch." But I can precariously perch it atop OK, and I'll only be using it for working from home anyway.

So now, I really only have three minor issues:
  • The stupid half-a-second lightshow when I change inputs or wake the display. Think I might employ some electrical tape, lol
  • The fan
  • Backlight bleed is worse, but as I said, I don't notice in usage


#52 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 02 June 2021 - 04:18 AM

View PostCougar, on 01 June 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:

  • Backlight bleed is worse, but as I said, I don't notice in usage

That's why I just say no to IPS panels now. Also I'm tired of blacks being grey. :glare: Now that i have a VA panel, it's so much better when playing in the dark. Granted, if you always play (or watch movies on it) with good lightning, it's much less noticeable. But some games are much better experienced in low light conditions.

#53 Cougar

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Posted 02 June 2021 - 10:40 AM

VA has its own compromises… The monitor market is a bit of a mess right now. Everything is an embarrassment compared to what you can get on the TV side.

LG also recently announced a $3000 27” OLED for professionals. Hopefully in 2-3 years we’ll finally see not-insanely priced OLED and mini LED gaming monitors.

Edit: can’t edit my previous post anymore but this is the discord server I used to get the monitor. Also does consoles and graphics cards. https://disboard.org...279314899861544

#54 Matt Diamond

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:58 AM

View PostCougar, on 24 May 2021 - 12:32 PM, said:

I've heard LG's service is terrible. Good luck.

A quick rating of LGs support so far:
- website: poor. One page says repair status is "Cancel", another says "Pending" but the dates precede when I sent it in. Neither status was correct.
- emails: adequate but mediocre. For example, email implied that I should have received the shipping label already, when that typically gets sent up to 3 days later (why so long?) Would also have liked to know that they received the unit.
- phone support: good! Called twice, and despite long warnings about wait times and "please use email or chat unless its an emergency", I was connected to someone within a minute. (I'm guessing those warnings were true in 2020.)

Phone support rep looked up the repair, told me when the repair part was due to arrive, when the monitor would probably ship, and that I'd get an email summary next week from the technician. He even apologized for not being able to call up the name of the part they were replacing.

So ups and downs, but the actual repair seems to be proceeding well.

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#55 Cougar

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Posted 11 June 2021 - 12:20 PM

Yikes: Bribes & Manipulation: LG Wants to Control Our Editorial Direction

#56 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 14 June 2021 - 02:36 AM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 31 May 2021 - 12:10 AM, said:

I couldn't get any yet. Now it's even more difficult because I only want a Founder's Edition, the only ones sold at a good price. No way I'm going to pay 1.5 or 2x the price the card should have. Here they're sold about once a month and get sold up in 2 mn (also the site is swamped so even if you're very fast, it's mostly luck based).

Update: I finally managed to buy a 3080 Founder's Edition, and at MSRP! So I kept my scalp intact. :P

#57 Matt Diamond

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Posted 17 June 2021 - 08:44 PM

Finally got my LG Ultrawide back from the warranty repair.

Big sticker on the monitor says "VISSUAL INSPECTION PASSED", which begs the question: who inspected that sticker?

Sadly, the monitor now displays vertical lines along the left side - a new problem. My 1-year warranty has since ended but the previous "repair" extended it by 90 days.

Again, phone support was good, no waiting, got me a return shipping label while I was on the phone to save time. But that doesn't quite compensate for having to start over from scratch after 3.5 weeks.

(Despite its stellar reviews, some as recent as this year, this monitor is apparently discontinued. I have to wonder if LG canned it for reliability issues.)

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#58 Matt Diamond

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 09:31 PM

Thanks again for the tips about Stockdrops. After several failed attempts over the last month  I managed to order an Xbox Series X today.

View PostCougar, on 31 May 2021 - 11:01 AM, said:

5. Download and install the Newegg and Best Buy apps on your iPhone or iPad. This lets you use Apple Pay to speed up the checkout process. Yes, the difference can matter.
Good idea, but even though I set up the BB app ahead of time, when an Xbox X dropped today I ended up having to use PayPal, and enter 2FA for BB and PayPal, all on a dodgy cellular connection. Thankfully if you actually manage to get something into your cart they seem to give you a few minutes to pay for it.

Maybe you have to log in via Apple ID to get the Apple Pay option? Once I logged in using my existing BB login it wasn’t an option. (It WAS an option with Newegg’s app, but you have to be careful of unscrupulous sellers on there.)

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#59 Cougar

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Posted 28 June 2021 - 08:46 PM

I’ve only ever been logged into Best Buy one way, with my normal account. I can no longer see an ApplePay option. Very strange.

#60 Matt Diamond

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Posted 29 June 2021 - 03:25 PM

The LG ultrawide repair saga continues!

  Episode I: My Monitor Stopped Working
  Episode II: LG Strikes Back (aka My Returned Monitor Still Doesn't Work)

Now thrill to the latest installment!

   Episode III: FedEx Loses The Monitor


p.s. To be fair it's only a couple days late, but it hasn't been seen in 6 days, and FedEx lost a package of mine in May so I am feeling pessimistic.

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