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Apple Plans to Announce Move to Its Own Chips at WWDC

T2 ARM CPU BORG WALLED GARDEN LOUIS ROSSMANN ANTI-RIGHT-TO-REPAIR

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#101 Janichsan

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Posted 28 June 2020 - 04:01 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 28 June 2020 - 03:36 AM, said:

In other news, it appears that Apple might be ditching Intel, but extending their relationship with AMD. Big Sur apparently has references to not only RDNA2 and RNDA3 AMD GPUs, but also low end AMD CPUs and high-end server CPUs.

So. Many. Puzzle. Pieces!
Don't forget that Apple still will release Intel based Macs in the next year. Of course they still need AMD GPUs in these. That's no indication that the upcoming Arm Macs will have AMD GPUs as well.

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#102 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:19 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 28 June 2020 - 04:01 AM, said:

Don't forget that Apple still will release Intel based Macs in the next year. Of course they still need AMD GPUs in these. That's no indication that the upcoming Arm Macs will have AMD GPUs as well.
Oh yeah, but that really only explain the RDNA2 mentions, and not everything else!

It could of course only mean that Apple is testing its options, but I really would have expected them to have done that way before Big Sur. Could it mean that they are ditching Intel, going ARM at the low end, but switching high end machines to AMD? One could hope!
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#103 UmarOMC1

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 02:27 AM

Linus gives a fairly well-informed (IMHO) 2 cents
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#104 Frost

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:11 PM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 29 June 2020 - 02:27 AM, said:

Linus gives a fairly well-informed (IMHO) 2 cents


Sometimes I want to smack Linus. This isn't one of them, great video with an even-handed realistic take.
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#105 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:32 PM

Looks like someone broke NDA and there is benchmarks out of the A12Z running Geekbench (via Rosetta 2) in macOS 11.

https://www.macrumor...h&utm_campaign=

Note:
  • The Geekbench runs are done using Rosetta 2, since Geekbench in macOS is not available natively for ARM
  • The A12Z, running emulated Geekbench, outperforms the Surface Pro X, which was running a native version of Geekbench (no emulation)
  • Rosetta 2 seems to be around a 30% performance hit vs native (If you compare the macOS A12Z score with the iPad A12Z score)
  • The A12Z chip is almost certainly slower then anything that will actually be in a 'real' Mac that ships this fall (will probably have an A13X or A14X)

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#106 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 12:53 AM

Snatched from an Ars Technica discussion on the subject:

Quote

In an interview with John Gruber, Craig Federighi said this is meant as a devkit only and will not be replicated for the actual ARM based Macs and they'll run custom silicon. He also said something along the lines of "its not bad performance for a dev kit" and, quote, "This is without our silicon team even trying".

Can these scores have been run using Geekbench from iOS on Big Sur, and thus with native ARM support?
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#107 jeannot

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 04:20 AM

Quote

  • The Geekbench runs are done using Rosetta 2, since Geekbench in macOS is not available natively for ARM
But the iOS version is, and should be able to run natively on the dev kit.
EDIT: ok, it cannot yet be installed because it is only available on the iOS App Store.

#108 nick68k

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 05:51 AM

Jason Snell over at SixColors wrote an interesting piece speculating about the sort of performance we might expect from Apple's ARM Macs.
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#109 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 06:04 AM

So much speculation. I've told my girlfriend to hold off on all Mac/iPad shopping until we see an ARM Mac in the field, but even though I expect Apple to do good, I don't expect them to send the Mac into a whole new level of processing speed.
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#110 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 08:22 AM

I find it hard to believe that the rumored M14 chip has a geekbench multicore core score 2000 points higher then the 12c/24t Ryzen 3900X, but I would love to be wrong.
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#111 nick68k

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:05 AM

I agree, it's all to be taken with a very large pinch of salt. But Snell is a cautious- and seasoned Apple watcher, so who knows.
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#112 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 05:13 AM

View PostSneaky Snake, on 29 July 2020 - 08:22 AM, said:

I find it hard to believe that the rumored M14 chip has a geekbench multicore core score 2000 points higher then the 12c/24t Ryzen 3900X, but I would love to be wrong.
Well, the ARM platform is very scaleable, so Apple could in principle build an extreme multicore machine if they wanted to, that would blow away any Ryzen chip. And a lot of their pro software is written to fully support multiple cores, so it may be they introduce an extreme variant of the Mac Pro. But for all other machines, they likely won't go above 10-12 performance cores.
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#113 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 31 July 2020 - 03:16 AM

Synthetic benchmarks are one thing, real-world performance is another. Nowadays I only care about the latter. When the PowerPC debuted (or the 2nd gen, PPC 603/604, I don't remember), the BYTEmark benchmark was heavily used to show how faster the PPC was compared to Pentiums of the era (do you remember the snail ad?). But in real world use, the advantage wasn't so clear cut, it depends on apps, the way they're programmed and what they use and do, and Pentiums were still faster for some tasks and apps. So, wait and see!

#114 jos

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 11:16 AM

https://nvidianews.n...r-the-age-of-ai

So, what does this mean for Apple? As we all know Apple has only been using GPUs from Intel and AMD for the last few years as they completely abandoned NVIDIA several years ago. Just a few months ago Apple announced they'd make a transition from Intel CPUs to ARM CPUs and now NVIDIA's suddenly acquiring ARM.

So, what does this mean? Of course Apple won't be too eager to partner up with NVIDIA again, but suddenly that's what they have to do. However, this time not for GPUs, but for CPUs. What does this mean for graphics? ARM has GPU cores embedded in them, so will future ARM chips have NVIDIA GPU cores embedded in them? What does this mean for Apple's relationship with AMD when NVIDIA's pushing their GPU cores down Apple's throat?

Sorry if I'm talking just complete nonsense. I just read this news a few moments ago and I just wrote down my own thoughts, even though I don't have much knowledge on this particular matter. Those with actual knowledge about these kind of things, please correct me and write down your thoughts, as the above text is nothing more than the thoughts of someone who has no idea what he's talking about.

#115 ozzy

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 01:19 PM

It's a good question. I thought that Apple licensed the ARM instruction set from ARM, but produced all of their chipsets themselves and have for the last 6-8 years (so they haven't relied on ARM chips for 6-8 years or so, just licensing the technology). My guess is there will be some sort of conditions in the sale for it to pass anti-monopoly regulators requiring Nvidia to still license the instruction set or something like that?

Put another way, I wouldn't expect it to change too much about the Apple/NVidia relationship one way or the other.

But this is all just a guess on my part.

#116 Tetsuya

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Posted 14 September 2020 - 02:08 PM

From everything ive seen, ARM is still operating independently, and is still committed to their Open-source approach, at least from the press release i read.

It wont really affect Apple unless they get into a snit simply because nVidia now owns ARM.

Like, Steve would have probably been irate as all get out because of it, simply because of his (irrational) hate-on for nVidia.  Whether Tim will be the same, who knows.  But i doubt it.

#117 Homy

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 12:31 PM

The Metal Score of A14 is impressive. It's 137% higher than A12 and 72% higher than A13 according to Geekbench results. It's lot more than 30% higher GPU performance that Apple stated at WWDC.

A12 5307, A13 7308, A14 12571

It can mean that A14X and A14Z can also be much faster?

A12X 10860, A14X 25725
A12Z 11665, A14Z 27632

A12 with 4 GPU cores scores 5307. A12Z with 8 GPU cores scores 11665. 4 extra cores means 120% performance increase. An A14Z Mac SoC with 24 GPU cores could score 87876 in Metal. That's between Radeon Pro W5700XT and Radeon Pro Vega II.

#118 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 06:43 AM

The A12 has 6 cores, not 4. It has 4 efficiency cores, and 2 high-performance cores. A12Z has 4:4.

We've seen multiple benchmarks out these days for the A14, and they all show widely different things so far.
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#119 Homy

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 08:13 AM

View PostThain Esh Kelch, on 05 October 2020 - 06:43 AM, said:

The A12 has 6 cores, not 4. It has 4 efficiency cores, and 2 high-performance cores. A12Z has 4:4.

We've seen multiple benchmarks out these days for the A14, and they all show widely different things so far.

Sorry but you're mistaking. A12 has 4 GPU cores as I wrote, not 6. You're talking about CPU cores which I didn't even mention. :)

#120 Thain Esh Kelch

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 08:27 AM

Ah doh. Reading is not my strongest apparently.
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