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The new Mac Pro has wheels…


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#1 Janichsan

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 12:54 PM

…making it the fastest computer in a race on the office hallway. (I'm actually expecting this joke to come up repeatedly in the next time.)

But seriously, the thing seems to be a beast and I guess it should be mostly what most pros wanted, with its standard PCIe extension slots and extensible memory. The design is (in my opion) somewhat ungainly, but it seems functional.

What I'm a bit sceptical about at the moment is the thermal management, especially if it's really good enough to effectively cool a number of dual GPU graphics cards, a multicore Xeon CPU, and a massive PSU. We'll see. I'm also not sure if the proprietary expansion module formats (MPX) will really catch on and find third-party support, but the possibility to fall back to standard PCIe probably does not make this much of a problem.

But no ARM CPUs. Yay!

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#2 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 01:47 PM

New Mac Pro looks like a beast. So happy that they have a real Pro machine now that has tons of expansion and no thermal constraints. I am a bit disappointing in the pricing (entry model has worse specs then iMac Pro and no 5K display, but costs $1K more) but so happy with the route that they went with the Mac Pro.

I feel like they should have maybe went with AMD's 7nm EPYC chips instead of Xeon, but that is just a minor thing (Xeon is 28c, EPYC is 64C and has similar single thread performance for roughly the same price)
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#3 RGoulder

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 01:47 PM

I have to say to my eyes the new Mac Pro looks ugly but I suppose its better than the trashcan.

The one thing I would like to know that they didn't mention at all was internal storage. Kind of seems like what they give you is all you get, any addition storage will be through thunderbolt external storage.

And that price tag for the monitor, ouch. Selling it for $4999 plus $1000 for the stand. Apple are you seriously going to sell me a monitor that has no stand?

#4 macdude22

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 01:52 PM

View PostRGoulder, on 03 June 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:


And that price tag for the monitor, ouch. Selling it for $4999 plus $1000 for the stand. Apple are you seriously going to sell me a monitor that has no stand?

The majority of professional users in the target market use vesa mounted monitors. Not including the (admittedly nice) stand and passing on the savings is smart since most customers would just set it aside anyway. I will concede that they should have included the vesa mount in the 4999 price.
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#5 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 02:17 PM

People buying a 6K HDR monitor for $5K probably don't care that much. Although not including any way to mount it without buying an additional $200 VESA adapter or a $1000 stand seems really strange.

I did notice that they didn't mention storage at all. Hopefully it has normal NVMe m.2 slots and at least 2x 3.5" slots for bulk storage.

Also the port selection seems extremely minimal (2x USB A, 2x TB3, 2x 10Gb RJ45, headphone jack). Should have at least 6x USB or something. They did mention an additional IO card for more $$$.
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#6 Janichsan

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 02:29 PM

View PostRGoulder, on 03 June 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

The one thing I would like to know that they didn't mention at all was internal storage. Kind of seems like what they give you is all you get, any addition storage will be through thunderbolt external storage.
From the pictures on the Mac Pro webpage, the SSDs appear to be replaceable, but they are Secure Enclave encrypted. I assume that will make aftermarket upgrades at least difficult.

Quote

And that price tag for the monitor, ouch. Selling it for $4999 plus $1000 for the stand. Apple are you seriously going to sell me a monitor that has no stand?
That baffled me as well. A $5000 display without any stand by default? The audience at the keynote also seemed somewhat confused by that, judging by their reaction.

View PostSneaky Snake, on 03 June 2019 - 02:17 PM, said:

People buying a 6K HDR monitor for $5K probably don't care that much.
I guess so? If the price tag of several ten thousand dollars they mentioned for comparable competitors is true, the Pro Display is probably still a steal, even if the stand is sold separately.

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#7 macdude22

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 02:36 PM

The spec sheet lists up to 4TB storage, probably similar to the dual SSD arrangement on the iMac Pro. 8 PCIe slots, you'll be able to slave in plenty of extra storage.

View PostJanichsan, on 03 June 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:


That baffled me as well. A $5000 display without any stand by default? The audience at the keynote also seemed somewhat confused by that, judging by their reaction.


This is all perception. If they had announced it at 5999 with the stand included people would have cheered to the rooftops. Only to have the stand tossed in a storage closet by 80% of customers. 100% should come with the vesa mount standard or they should bill the base price as 5199 not 4999.

View PostJanichsan, on 03 June 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

From the pictures on the Mac Pro webpage, the SSDs appear to be replaceable, but they are Secure Enclave encrypted. I assume that will make aftermarket upgrades at least difficult.


Only regarding the secure boot chain, and only in the default secure boot configuration. None boot volume aftermarket storage, is not an issue on T2 hardware in the default configuration. I have a stack of drives slaved to my office 2018 mini.
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#8 Atticus

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 02:45 PM

Looks like a beast. That 1,000 track audio demo was pretty nuts.

Overall, Apple finally brought the goodz in this year's keynote. Apple/Mac mags/sites/wonks/talking heads will be chewing over all this for months. For example, at the end of the WatchOS segment on the slide that listed all the features coming but not mentioned, swear I saw an item for on-watch software updates. Not having to rely on phone for these would be awesome.

Also, Craig F. for next CEO, pls.
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#9 UmarOMC1

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:53 PM

Starts at $6K? I can't justify that for gaming. So, so much better than that damned trash can though.
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#10 Janichsan

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 11:35 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 03 June 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

This is all perception. If they had announced it at 5999 with the stand included people would have cheered to the rooftops. Only to have the stand tossed in a storage closet by 80% of customers. 100% should come with the vesa mount standard or they should bill the base price as 5199 not 4999.
I think you're right. It's mostly the way the presented it which gave the impression of gouging: here's your shiny new car, but you have to pay extra for the steering wheel.

Quote

Only regarding the secure boot chain, and only in the default secure boot configuration. None boot volume aftermarket storage, is not an issue on T2 hardware in the default configuration. I have a stack of drives slaved to my office 2018 mini.
:thumbsup:

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#11 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:52 AM

I noticed in the screenshots on Apple's website you can see two internal sata ports, so that gives me hope that there is room for at least 2x 3.5" drives in there.

Would be really nice to put some 14TB spinners in there in RAID1 for the option of having tons of storage local to the machine without the need for a NAS/fileserver.
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#12 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 10:15 AM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 03 June 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

Starts at $6K? I can't justify that for gaming. So, so much better than that damned trash can though.

Yes, this is for video editors who have invested much, much more than that on equipment and need expansion. And no Nvidia means that you could build a much better computer for gaming for much less.

256 GB on a 6K computer does seem a bit skimpy, though, even by Apple standards. I can’t see many people going for the base config. (In comparison, the iMac Pro starts at 1TB. Maybe Apple thinks that since it’s expandable smaller base storage is OK...)

Anyone here listen to ATP regularly? I was at the live show last night and the Mac Pro discussion was just gold.

#13 Matt Diamond

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 11:23 AM

View PostUmarOMC1, on 03 June 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

Starts at $6K? I can't justify that for gaming. So, so much better than that damned trash can though.
Me neither, and believe me I've been trying. :-)

Although.. let's assume the base video card is good for gaming and would last at least 4 years. Then assume a decent GPU upgrade exists in 2023 for < $700. Then, if the tower itself lasts at least 10 years.. (scribbles on back on envelope for a while)

.. Still no. Dang it!
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#14 devSin

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:29 PM

Yeah, this is intended for the "pro" pro space. No more "prosumer" Mac Pro.

The display too is positioned as a replacement for reference displays (usually 10s of thousands of dollars). Makes sense they don't bother with a stand or mount, as people who need such a thing likely have custom stands already.

View PostMatt Diamond, on 04 June 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

Although.. let's assume the base video card is good for gaming and would last at least 4 years. Then assume a decent GPU upgrade exists in 2023 for < $700. Then, if the tower itself lasts at least 10 years.. (scribbles on back on envelope for a while)
Assuming it supports Boot Camp, they say there are two 8-pin AUX connectors, so you should be able to just plug in any GPU and use it in Windows.

But buying one of these would still be crazy.

#15 mattw

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:36 PM

No doubt this will be great for the genuine professional but no attempt has been made to offer an affordable version for the hobbyist.

It also looks like 10.14 is the last MacOS version for my 2009 modded to 5.1 firmware too but I knew I'd have to keep it going as long as possible for my 32-bit game library and a few legacy apps too unless a good Virtual machine option appears with full GPU support for an older MacOS.

I've too many years of iTunes content and saves in Mac formats to jump ship altogether so guess in a year or two I'll just have to get some refurb Mac Mini or something (hope eventually the integrated GPU will exceed an RX580...I hate the idea of being slower at anything) and then just use it for my media libraries and productivity and no more games.

I really preferred just having the one computer for it all (and not having to put time into managing or find space for a console or PC as well) but I don't want to be buying a new computer every few years with soldered in parts and don't need portability - my phone is all I need on the go.

At least the iPad software is improving so maybe I can reduce my need for a computer some more and one day it won't matter anymore.
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#16 macdude22

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 02:38 PM

View Postmattw, on 04 June 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

No doubt this will be great for the genuine professional but no attempt has been made to offer an affordable version for the hobbyist.


The Mac Mini is the prosumer model in Apple's lineup.
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#17 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:24 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 04 June 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

The Mac Mini is the prosumer model in Apple's lineup.

No doubt Apple believes it to be. I would agree with them if there were a more expensive version with a few PCI slots. Back in the day, Apple offered both Minis and "low-end" PowerMacs under $2K.

#18 macdude22

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:38 PM

"Back in the day" prosumers were apple's bread and butter and they were hungry. This is no longer the case. The G4 mini was hardly comparable to the G4 and G4 towers of it's era whereas the 2018 mini now fills the prosumer niche well. I never expected it to release with 4 TB3 ports but here we are. It's plenty machine, plenty expandable, and I am very happy with it as my daily driver. We deploy TONS of them in dual monitor configuration with Dell U2415 monitors (some with eGPUs).

Idk what this fantasy world of the past people want to go back to but I for one am happy to not have 2 meter tall desktops with an independent port for every thing I might ever use on the backside. I hear HAF makes great cases for the folks that desire a return to that era.
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#19 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 05:05 PM

Again, the "fantasy world" would be an xMac: consumer GPU, PCI slot-expandable with replaceable GPUs. It's not hard to imagine.

I agree Apple is unlikely to do this, but the new Mac Pro is so high end that there's certainly room to bring some of that expantability to a lower-speced machine if they wanted.

#20 Spike

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 05:13 PM

"Back in the day" Apple's desktops were far superior to what they have now. The Mac mini having to get an expensive, noisy, large extra box to upgrade the gpu is better than nothing, but completely inferior to Apples previous desktops of the 90's & 00's. I also loved not having to bring so many adapters -- wow, life was grand then.

I love external GPUs for Macbooks, but for desktops - internal is the way to go.