Jump to content


Will newbs ever invest into pc gaming again?


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 Janichsan

Janichsan

    Jugger Bugger

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8285 posts
  • Steam Name:Janichsan
  • Location:over there

Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:29 AM

View PostHansi, on August 13th 2009, 04:05 PM, said:

So there is no PS3 piracy, ...
...yet. Sooner or later, piracy always found its way.

"We do what we must, because we can."
"Gaming on a Mac is like women on the internet." — "Highly common and totally awesome?"


#22 Tetsuya

Tetsuya

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2205 posts
  • Location:MI

Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:35 AM

View PostHansi, on August 13th 2009, 07:05 AM, said:

The PS3 hasn't been hacked, there is no mod for it and there is not accurate way of dumping the PS3 game disks.

So there is no PS3 piracy, anyone claiming otherwise is lying or misinformed.

And yet, i just played Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom on a modded PS3 two days ago.  Huh.  Guess im lying.

#23 Frigidman™

Frigidman™

    Eye Sea Yew

  • Admin
  • 4278 posts
  • Steam ID:frigidman
  • Location:East mahn, East!
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:48 AM

View PostJ, on August 11th 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

However I do not support game piracy at ANY level.  If there's not a demo... then TOO BAD.  If you MUST have a demo, then don't buy the game.  If you download it illegally, then I can only hope the law catches up with you and you are fined appropriately.  I don't find PC game prices to be disagreeable on any level, and even if I did, I'm able to budget to allow myself to live happily with new games on a regular basis.

Actually, there was a long span of time, where many new games were being thrown out the door that were just ... horrid. Where people who bought them were actually feeling like they were ripped off. This is how the dawn of Game Demos became such a huge hit. If people found the demo to suck, then they wouldn't buy, and thus not feel ripped off. Then, games started coming out with NO demo. After an age where so many bad games existed, and the demo was the make/break point for them... people felt compelled to turn to getting the "Full Demo" (pirated game) to try before they buy.

This of course opened the whole game to them, and they found they would end up playing through the whole game, liking it, but then at the end think "well, I guess I dont need to buy it...". Which is horribly bad.

NOT having a game demo in this age, is saying two things:

1) We dont care about making a lot of sales, screw you customers, you just need to buy it to try it out.
2) Go pirate our game.

Personally, since I was burned so many times by popsnizzle games with no demos, as is NOW... if a game has no demo, forget it. I will not buy it based off some biased idiot's review of it. I also won't pirate it to -try it-, because pirating games is just too much of a hassle to get a "Demo" that should have been properly released by the developers in the first place. I look down on game developers who dont release demos. They are only shooting themselves in the foot by lack of demo.





View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 08:35 AM, said:

And yet, i just played Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom on a modded PS3 two days ago.  Huh.  Guess im lying.
Yeah. I know a few people who have modded PS3 and download lots of games. I didn't say I LIKE these people... I just know them.

No console is piracy-free. Anyone claiming a console system is, is lying or misinformed ;)

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#24 J'nathus

J'nathus

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:53 AM

View PostThe Liberator, on August 13th 2009, 01:17 AM, said:

Piracy has definitely damaged the number of games sold, I am sure the sales of Crysis and Assassin's Creed were damaged by the piracy of them. To what degree I cannot say, as I do not know, but I am sure it was not a very small amount.
I didn't quite spell out what I meant.  The assumption is EVERY download equates to a lost sale.  I would argue that this kind of math is very far off from the mark.  I'm not sure about Assassin's Creed, but many people were on the fence about Crysis.  There was a demo, which I liked, so I bought it.  To be quite clear, that game was a few steps back from Far Cry in the amount of freedom the world allowed you, which is unfortunate. However, as was pointed out . . .  integrated graphics are pretty much in everything, and Crysis needs something dedicated.  That locked a good number of prospective PC gamers out of that game.   Like Doom 3, I think Crysis (while good) did have some limited appeal.

#25 Tetsuya

Tetsuya

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2205 posts
  • Location:MI

Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:21 AM

View PostFrigidman, on August 13th 2009, 07:48 AM, said:

Yeah. I know a few people who have modded PS3 and download lots of games. I didn't say I LIKE these people... I just know them.

No console is piracy-free. Anyone claiming a console system is, is lying or misinformed ;)

Well in this case it's a legally purchased imported game; my friend is the Gaming DH for a large anime convention in the midwest.  A lot of the games anime fans want wont run on straight US hardware, but the games are all non-pirated.

#26 Hansi

Hansi

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1785 posts
  • Steam ID:hansroberth
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:48 AM

View PostFrigidman, on August 13th 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

Yeah. I know a few people who have modded PS3 and download lots of games. I didn't say I LIKE these people... I just know them.

No console is piracy-free. Anyone claiming a console system is, is lying or misinformed ;)

Seriously when I saw the mention of PS3 piracy I simply went to google to look it up and there are mentions of loaders and crap and then infinite mentions of "friends" who have mods and got working loaders but not one first hand experience.... and there are no scene releases for PS3 games like pretty much every other media out there...

Can you provide any information about how these consoles were modded and why no one else can get these mods?

View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

Well in this case it's a legally purchased imported game; my friend is the Gaming DH for a large anime convention in the midwest.  A lot of the games anime fans want wont run on straight US hardware, but the games are all non-pirated.

So he imported a region free game and all of a sudden he has a modded PS3?

#27 teflon

teflon

    Bastard of the Popeye Analogy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9589 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:53 AM

View PostIchigo27, on August 13th 2009, 09:58 AM, said:

When dealing developing a playstation 3 your dealing with open GL ES, and a complicated platform to work with. I'd say when it comes to differences with graphics, I think if sony went with a more reasonable card that was a bit more power as oppose to a geforce 7 series type of card I think that would of made a difference when comparing to the modified x1950 that's in the 360.

Don't forget that at the time of development and announcement, Geforce 7 was still slightly in the future. It was the best they could get at that time, and even then they managed to get a die shrink from the 7800's 110nm process to a 90nm process which would feature in the 7900 (and was 1 of about 2 or 3 small differences between those two revisions).
The only way they could have gotten something more powerful would have been to twist and tweak the way the RSX integrated with the system. Give it a similar sub-GPU to the 360 that can handle FSAA exclusively with its own little allocation of independent RAM so that the RSX could focus on more important things. This 'free FSAA' is a big advantage of the 360's architecture.


View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

Well in this case it's a legally purchased imported game; my friend is the Gaming DH for a large anime convention in the midwest.  A lot of the games anime fans want wont run on straight US hardware, but the games are all non-pirated.

hate to break it to you, but I don't think theres a single region locked PS3 game. Which means I can buy any PS3 game from any region and run it on any PS3 I want. With the sole exception of running some games in SD rather than HD, what with the differences between PAL and NTSC.
And how are you playing Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom on a PS3? It doesn't exist, I looked it up, and its Arcade and Wii only with the developers having said that they have no plans for a 360 or PS3 version.

There have been several games that, using YDL, you could dump the contents of the disks from, including Madden '07, Genji and one or two others. Im not sure if the dump techniques will work on every game out there.
There is also the ability to, with the original 20GB and 60GB PS3's to hack the region code and let you play backed up PS2 (yes, 2) games.
And they've managed to decrypt the PS3's HDD and view its contents.
I don't know if this has been applied yet, and its all generally with older PS3s which you can't get any more, but I can see things eventually progressing so that if you've got the right PS3, you can go all PSP on it and hack it to play just about anything.
Polytetrafluoroethylene to my friends.

Macbook Pro - C2D 2.4Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Geforce 8600M GT 256Mb / 15.4"
Cube - G4 1.7Ghz 7448 / 1.5GB RAM / Samsung Spinpoint 250GB / Geforce 6200 256Mb
Self-built PC - C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Radeon 7850 OC 1GB / W7 x64
and a beautiful HP LP2475w 24" H-IPS monitor

#28 Tetsuya

Tetsuya

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2205 posts
  • Location:MI

Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:18 PM

edit:

eh, im getting out of this conversation.  When Teflon and Hansl grow up, maybe ill care.  Until then, be as wrong as you want. I wont start a flame war with infants.

#29 J'nathus

J'nathus

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:26 PM

View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

When Teflon and Hansl grow up, maybe ill care.  Until then, be as wrong as you want. I wont start a flame war with infants.
Yes, your 'get the last word' because you're done with the conversation makes you the prime example of maturity. Keep working at that 'not engaging in a flame war' by planting flame bait.  I'm sure you'll get it.

#30 Hansi

Hansi

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1785 posts
  • Steam ID:hansroberth
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:36 PM

View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 06:18 PM, said:

edit:

eh, im getting out of this conversation.  When Teflon and Hansl grow up, maybe ill care.  Until then, be as wrong as you want. I wont start a flame war with infants.

You're kidding right, you say something you can't stand by and then call us infants... sir you are the one being childish to expect us to believe something exists when there is no proof of it's existence. I'm not looking for any kind of a flame war but ask that anyone that can show me any kind of information of there being a PS3 mod/loader/magical fairy then please do so.

Oh and just to jump back on topic a little bit I'd like to point out the recent comeback of adventure games for PC which have actually been seeing a exponential rise in numbers over the last two years, which is great for me as I'm a big fan of them and I've seen a lot of demand for these games by my peers who grew up in the adventure game golden age and have had their fill of FPSes etc and just want those good old point and click adventure games back :)

#31 Ichigo27

Ichigo27

    NSFW o_O

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2245 posts
  • Location:pingas

Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:56 PM

View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

edit:

eh, im getting out of this conversation.  When Teflon and Hansl grow up, maybe ill care.  Until then, be as wrong as you want. I wont start a flame war with infants.

Apparently I created a thread that nearly tops the "the next marathon game" thread, all in a couple of pages not 80.

I haven't seen this much epicness on IMG since AMG ranted about root bear, and MILBOP DIPPLEBERRY  PMSing threads.
What is a man?

#32 teflon

teflon

    Bastard of the Popeye Analogy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9589 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:31 PM

View PostTetsuya, on August 13th 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

eh, im getting out of this conversation.  When Teflon and Hansl grow up, maybe ill care.  Until then, be as wrong as you want. I wont start a flame war with infants.

Haha, I'm glad that you consider yourself a paragon of truth and knowledge, Tetsuya. After that comment, its pretty clear to me that no-one else will.

For my post I took a good half hour to research and double check everything I said. Then I went back and edited it... Twice.
If you'd actually bothered to read, you could see that I'd a) looked to see if the PS3 game you claimed to have played actually existed and b) gave you the single reason why any PS3 game would potentially not work on a PS3 from a different region. Those are facts and I can back them up with evidence.

I also went and looked to see exactly what reproducible hacks and exploits there were for the PS3 and documented those too. I can back them up too.

Im not necessarily saying that the PS3 isnt hacked, I just can't find any evidence to suggest that it really is. Surely it would have been well reported, as it was with the PSP?
If you'd given us even a shred of proof, you might have been more believable.

Ah, what's the point...
Polytetrafluoroethylene to my friends.

Macbook Pro - C2D 2.4Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Geforce 8600M GT 256Mb / 15.4"
Cube - G4 1.7Ghz 7448 / 1.5GB RAM / Samsung Spinpoint 250GB / Geforce 6200 256Mb
Self-built PC - C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Radeon 7850 OC 1GB / W7 x64
and a beautiful HP LP2475w 24" H-IPS monitor

#33 Ichigo27

Ichigo27

    NSFW o_O

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2245 posts
  • Location:pingas

Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:42 PM

Speaking about that game... He said it was for the wii right? Well the Wii using Open GL ES 2.0 like the playstation 3, but I'm not 100% sure.
What is a man?

#34 Sneaky Snake

Sneaky Snake

    Official Mascot of the 1988 Winter Olympics

  • IMG Writers
  • 3356 posts
  • Steam Name:SneakySnake
  • Steam ID:sneaky_snake
  • Location:Waterloo, Canada

Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:44 PM

I am playing Crysis on my PS3   :mellow:




:kidding:

2015 13" rMBP: i5 5257U @ 2.7 GHz || Intel Iris 6100 || 8 GB LPDDR3 1866 || 256 GB SSD || macOS High Sierra
Gaming Build: i5 8400 || Vega 56 || 16 GB DDR4 || 960 Evo NVMe || Win10 Pro
Other: 30TB Plex Server || Xbox One X || PS4 Pro || iPhone X

#35 J'nathus

J'nathus

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:52 PM

View PostSneaky Snake, on August 13th 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

I am playing Crysis on my PS3   :mellow:
You will be able to soon enough. :)

#36 teflon

teflon

    Bastard of the Popeye Analogy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9589 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 13 August 2009 - 02:02 PM

View PostIchigo27, on August 13th 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

Speaking about that game... He said it was for the wii right? Well the Wii using Open GL ES 2.0 like the playstation 3, but I'm not 100% sure.

Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom? He said he played it on a PS3, I said it was Arcade and Wii only.
Im pretty certain that because of the Wii's GC heritage, it can't use the full OGL ES 2.0, though I can't find any actual evidence anywhere.

Going back over the thread, I've spotted what may have been a circumstantial mix up with what Tetsuya was saying. On P1 he said that he needed to to hack 360s so that they could play imported games. On P2 he just said that a lot of imported anime games wouldn't run on US hardware. Thinking about it, he probably meant the 360 in that instance, but said it whilst the rest of the conversation was centred around the PS3, which, as we all know, can play all PS3 games from all regions, but is region locked when it comes to PS2 games, DVDs and some Blu-Rays.

If that was the case, Tetsuya, why didn't you just say so?
Polytetrafluoroethylene to my friends.

Macbook Pro - C2D 2.4Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Geforce 8600M GT 256Mb / 15.4"
Cube - G4 1.7Ghz 7448 / 1.5GB RAM / Samsung Spinpoint 250GB / Geforce 6200 256Mb
Self-built PC - C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Radeon 7850 OC 1GB / W7 x64
and a beautiful HP LP2475w 24" H-IPS monitor

#37 Frigidman™

Frigidman™

    Eye Sea Yew

  • Admin
  • 4278 posts
  • Steam ID:frigidman
  • Location:East mahn, East!
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:19 AM

Hehe guys, try to keep the personal jabs on the side of Don't™
Keep the discussion more constructive, and leave the TOZ-Ts at home.

In response to the line "Can you provide any information about how these consoles were modded and why no one else can get these mods?" the answer is a resounding NO, because IMG does not condone the spreading of information that leads to piracy, even if its a curious 'how do they do it' notion with no desire to do it ones self. The reason people keep that stuff and downloads off the public face, is because, well, its the underground right? You won't find it on the local news stand.

If a topic on piracy wants to be started outside of this topic, then by all means make one. Don't think it has much to do with newbs and pc gaming... does it? Piracy exists for everything. Its one of those constants you leave out of the equations since all it does is muck things up and add more long hand to do lol.

-Fm [1oM7]
"I'm not incorruptible, I am so corrupt nothing you can offer me is tempting." - Alfred Bester


#38 morback

morback

    Fanatic

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 130 posts
  • Location:Istanbul

Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:48 AM

View PostA.Cole, on August 11th 2009, 10:31 AM, said:

That flexibility works against us though.  Having a system with an ATI Radeon HD 3650, another with a nVidia 8800GT, one with just being integrated graphics, etc., leads to problems for the developers.  I have read countless developer blogs that curse the computers for being so different because it leads to little errors, such as one specific card not working because of driver issues.  There is no common ground for the developer to work with, and thus their product also gets unfairly bashed for not working on X system with Y components.  This leads to even more turmoil when you take into account things like Quad core, Dual, SLI, etc.

They should love developing games for macs then... :lol:  It's the best of both world: limited hardware + PC modability (and mouse + keyboard)...

#39 teflon

teflon

    Bastard of the Popeye Analogy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9589 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 14 August 2009 - 08:43 AM

View PostFrigidman, on August 14th 2009, 02:19 PM, said:

Hehe guys, try to keep the personal jabs on the side of Don't™
Keep the discussion more constructive, and leave the TOZ-Ts at home.

In response to the line "Can you provide any information about how these consoles were modded and why no one else can get these mods?" the answer is a resounding NO, because IMG does not condone the spreading of information that leads to piracy, even if its a curious 'how do they do it' notion with no desire to do it ones self.

Heh, he started it. I've gone out of my way to try and find where we might have been talking at cross purposes!

And as for the proof aspect. Clear and obvious videos on youtube, news posts on engadget/wherever (who have previously happily talked about hacking PSPs), Digg. Whatever, there's plenty of ways to show us that its possible and has been done.
In defence of the "It hasn't been done yet" camp, I would have liked to include a link to a thread on a site called PS3 Hacks. The title of the thread is "*!NO NOT HACKED!* ALL EXPLIOT & HACK INFORMATION IS HERE", unfortunately it has info about how you can play backed up PS2 title on the old PS2 compatible PS3s. (and if including the thread title was a bit too risqué, feel free to delete it).

Instead Ill quote from it:

Quote

Mr. Obvious:

There are NO HDD LOADERS, and no way to play PS3 game backups/rips from any HDD.
There are NO EMULATORS to be run, be it under linux or homebrew!  There WAS a Blu-Ray Java (BR-J) NES Emulator, with no sound; but they stopped that with firmware update 2.50.
There are NO ISO LOADERS!  There will NOT be an ISO loader for PS3 Titles
There is NO HOMEBREW!
There is NO WAY TO PLAY PS3 DISC BACKUPS!

Since that is current news still on such a site (and I can find details about hacking PSPs, DSs, 360s etc. etc. on the first page in google), that's the end of the matter.

Sorry for derailing the topic once again.
Polytetrafluoroethylene to my friends.

Macbook Pro - C2D 2.4Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Geforce 8600M GT 256Mb / 15.4"
Cube - G4 1.7Ghz 7448 / 1.5GB RAM / Samsung Spinpoint 250GB / Geforce 6200 256Mb
Self-built PC - C2Q Q8300 2.5Ghz / 4GB RAM / Samsung 830 256GB SSD / Radeon 7850 OC 1GB / W7 x64
and a beautiful HP LP2475w 24" H-IPS monitor

#40 J'nathus

J'nathus

    Legendary

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:01 PM

View Postteflon, on August 14th 2009, 07:43 AM, said:

Heh, he started it. I've gone out of my way to try and find where we might have been talking at cross purposes!
Like the philosopher Will Smith said...  Don't START nuthin'..  won't BE nuthin!

I've never pirated games on any console or PC.  I have (however) cracked most of my PC games so that they don't need the CD / DVD in the drive.  It's a violation of the DMCA, which I kind of disliked . . .being a law abiding citizen and all.  That's why I like Steam so much.  No CD / DVD check.. just click and GAME!