28 replies to this topic

[oogabooga]

Then help support the cause! We recently launched a Kickstarter campaign to stop all this futzing around and acquire the licensing for the Myth franchise and make a new game! We've had the talent forever, and with a few hired programming goons and artists we can turn this already awe-inspiringly fun game into the unlimited, endlessly moddable, graphically superior but faithfully Mythy sequel!

http://www.kickstart...ter/mythstarter

[Matt Diamond]

So part of what's being funded is the acquisition of the license to the franchise? That's not clear to me from the kickstarter pitch.

There are also some good comments/questions on the kickstarter project page that you would do well to address.

Until you do... I would like to believe that this is a real thing, and that you guys know what you are doing, but I can't yet.

Good luck to you though.

[Frost]

If you can show "we have negotiated a price with Take Two and they have accepted if we can raise it" I'm super-interested.

If this is just "we're trying to raise a bunch of money and then we're gonna just offer it to Take Two and hope they accept" which is, no offense, kinda what it looks like, I'm not so sure.

[oogabooga]

Funny you guys should mention, today has been spent filming the bulk of the next update, which addresses the concerns raised by both yourselves and the comments from the kickstarter website. Your input is extremely appreciated and if you can and hold on for a bit longer, our planned video update schedule will have plenty more behind the scenes, and also show working examples of many of the proposed features.

The intitial kickstarter page most definitely needs more transparency and intimacy with the developers, us, and our top priority is relating to everyone just what is involved and why we believe we are more than qualified to be the ones doing this.

Let me state for the record that what has been going on with the Myth engine for the past few years has been astonishing to behold. Things that would ordinarily have been included in the budget as things needing to be coded in the engine have already been added, tested and finalized in the most current available version of the Myth 2 application.

32 bit graphic support, terrain detail map and decal system GREATLY improves visual impact. Interpolation of moving objects provides a much smoother visual experience as well. There are more things like that which have been giving mapmakers more and more freedom being implemented all the time. The only problem is, without the license, the people currently maintaining the Myth code dont seem to have any ambition to produce a new product. At all. They hold the idea that somehow they will convince take2 to give them the myth license FOR FREE or make it open source. I think we both know the probability of take2 doing that. We want to HIRE those people who have been updating the code, if we are successful! They're the people we've been working with for YEARS and YEARS! And THAT my friend is no exaggeration of time. There is a LOT of vetted talent out there waiting to be grabbed.

So be very excited if we succeed. Very excited. I'm doing this because _I_ PERSONALLY WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME THAT WE WANT TO MAKE!

Anyways I gotta get back to filming the video! It may come out tomorrow if editing takes too long tonight!

Thank you ALL for your support, even you devil's advocates

[the Battle Cat]

I know OogaBooga from back in the day, we used to hang out in the Bungie.org forums and on Hotline in Bungie related channels.  He was huge into Marathon and Myth map making.  He always was a motivator and an inspiration to those around him.  One of the good guys.  It's not a bit surprising to see that he has taken his act on the road.  

Hi Ooga.  (You see kids, I can call him Ooga but you should call him OogaBooga or a Trow will visit your home and rearrange your spine.)  I wish you the best of luck in getting that license and making this come true.  There are lots of Myth players still banging away at it, plus it would be cool if a new generation of players could get in on the fun.

[oogabooga]

Thank you, tBC, it's been too long my old friend

To all those who wonder: We do not own Myth. This is a project in which a portion of our raised funding goes into securing the Myth franchise. If we do this, and make this game, the license will be in the hands of THE most experienced group of Mythers (and myth contacts we know and are interested) possible. The nerds (us) who still make things for the game.

We are still editing the footage shot today that further clarifies our position

I will do my best to be the PR guy, running around and assuaging everyone that we are indeed, NOT full of baloney. Not even a little. There is no exaggeration about our experience, skills or aptitude to get this done. There are unknown factors, but the beauty of kickstarter is that if you fund us, you aren't risking anything at all if we do not initially reach our funding goals.

Even if we fail the first time, kickstarter isn't a forum where you can only try once and give up. It would just force us to reformulate our approach.

Do you want to know something? If I had been in charge of the initial kickstarter video, it would have had a LOT more gameplay and a LOT more of "things we've made to assure you we are SERIOUS BUSINESS"!

As it stands, i'm going to be doing just that with this series of updates. Expect some FUN to watch videos on the kickstarter page in the next few days. My whole goal now is to put into video form all the best work we've done.

I guarantee you, even if this project doesn't succeed at first, DO NOT MISS OUT on those videos!!!

[Frost]

Best of luck then!

I was a H-U-G-E Myth fan back in the day, so seeing it arise from the grave (and Dance on It *winkwinknudgenudge*) would be awesome.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

Reminds me that we still need to make an annual IMG Myth 2 LMotH tournament.

[Matt Diamond]

oogabooga, on 17 October 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

To all those who wonder: We do not own Myth. This is a project in which a portion of our raised funding goes into securing the Myth franchise.

That's a shame because that's a potential point of failure that cannot be gotten around. In other words, if you make your kickstarter goal and get everyone's money, then fail to negotiate the rights, then all hell breaks loose. And negotiating for rights can be difficult.

I'm willing to put moderate amounts of money to games that may or may not be made, and have done so, but in those cases there is a pretty good chance some version of the game will end up getting made. It may be lacking features, it may lack polish, or suffer from imbalance, but at least it exists *cough*myth3*cough*.

Here's my suggestion. Come up with a B plan for if you can't secure the rights. For example, it could be to merge _some_ of the changes or maps back into Project Magma. You can say up front that the result won't be as good as if you get the rights, but at least people's money won't be in limbo for lack of a project. That would lower the risk of failure to funders, and also for your developers and level designers, who don't want to see their hard work go to waste.

(Other questions relating to rights and publishing:  what if Take Two is willing to license you the right to develop the game but insist on right of first refusal? What if you are completely successful-- is the final game going to be free, self-published, published in the Apple/MS stores, or what? Do you have any kind of legal counsel for the negotiation and/or contract signing, and contracting with other team members?)

If you come up with a plausible and appealing fallback plan should the rights don't come your way, then I'll back the kickstarter. That's the biggest risk to the project that I see.

Good luck..

[Frost]

Yep, pretty much with Matt Diamond here. I'm really concerned about the Take Two thing; I hope you guys are at least in contact with them, but I'm assuming you'll cover this in that update you mentioned.

[fabforrest]

Probably my all time favorite game. I will be checking out the update, too, with much interest and the possibility of funds.

[oogabooga]

We most certainly will cover the issue of licensing and take 2 in the next video.  Also editing is taking longer for the update video than we thought so in the meantime i'm probably going to upload some juicy footage of levels we've made and whatnot for people to ogle - theres a considerable lack on the page itself and thats been bugging me! After launch I kept seeing things we didnt account for, so that's our top priority right now - assuring you the public that we've got a plan for everything.

[oogabooga]

To tide you over, here are a few units in progress that we've been sculpting in zBrush - these are all based on the wonderful art of Juan Ramirez:

[fabforrest]

How long to the update?

[the Battle Cat]

In the interests of full disclosure, I think it is important for forum members (potential investors) to see the waters in which this Kickstarter project is swimming.  A discussion with the Myth community can be seen here:

http://tain.totalcod....php?f=2&t=6085

A few important things to take away from this are:

1) Take 2 still owns the rights to the Myth series.
2) Project Magma was given permission to maintain and update (but not distribute) Myth 1 & 2 by Take 2 many years ago.

As it stands, this group:
3) Does not have permission from Take 2 to use, update, or distribute Myth or it's content for their project.
4) Does not have permission from Project Magma to use the updates it's made to the games in their project.

[Frost]

I will go on record as saying I'll step up and put some cash into this, and more than just $10, but only once it's been shown that contact has been made with Take 2, a price agreed upon, and that the Kickstarter covers that price.

[fabforrest]

A discussion with the Myth community can be seen here:


Well, THAT was interesting.

[Thain Esh Kelch]

I see the Myth community is still how it was 10 years ago. Pity.

[the Battle Cat]

Yeah, I think oogaBooga held the high ground in that conversation by not returning the vitriol that was heaped on him by some of the members there.  That's how I remember Ooga, as a nice guy.  Still there were some very vital questions that he didn't answer that are of concern to them and me.  I'm afraid Ooga has the cart before the horse on the licensing issue, and Project Magma's unwillingness to include the code he is depending on are both critical.  I'd feel a lot better if he had made a licensing deal with Take 2 first, pending his success with Kickstarter, whereby he could pay them as promised or no license would be issued.  The license is the most important part, coding can be contracted afterwards but with no license what hope is there?

[Tibur]

Sometimes the first rule of licensing negotiations is "Don't talk about licensing negotiations."  Just a random thought I had, since there seems to be what I would describe as "artful dodging" by Ooga when the subject is raised.