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The new Mac Pro has wheels…


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#21 macdude22

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 05:28 PM

View PostSpike, on 04 June 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

"Back in the day" Apple's desktops were far superior to what they have now.

Posted Image

View PostCougar, on 04 June 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:

Again, the "fantasy world" would be an xMac: consumer GPU, PCI slot-expandable with replaceable GPUs. It's not hard to imagine.


It's easy to imagine but I think you drastically over estimate the market for this "xMac"
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#22 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:59 PM

Quote


It's easy to imagine but I think you drastically over estimate the market for this "xMac"

Gotta be bigger than a $6K Mac Pro...even when accounting for the larger margins the $6K product would have.

There are other benefits, too: by having a broader Mac lineup that supports PCI expansion, you have a better market for third party cards, so the Mac Pro becomes a better product.

#23 macdude22

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:04 PM

https://www.theonion...-120-1835216045
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#24 nick68k

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:46 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 04 June 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:


Well, he's right about Myth:TFL.
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#25 UmarOMC1

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:45 PM

View Postmattw, on 04 June 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

No doubt this will be great for the genuine professional but no attempt has been made to offer an affordable version for the hobbyist.
FWIW others already have it installed on Hackintosh setups, but, IIRC, using KVM for now. I'll bide my time for now. I'm hoping for optimized drivers to justify a Radeon VII purchase.
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#26 UmarOMC1

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 02:25 AM


Linus chimes in on the new Mac Pro in Linus Tech Tips
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#27 Matt Diamond

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:18 AM

My daughter tells me that one of her favorite YouTubers got a "notable tweet" (i.e. lots of likes and retweets) for saying that the new Pro looks like (drumroll)...

.. a cheese grater.

I guess if you are the first port of call on the internet for lots of teenagers, even your most stunningly unoriginal observations can get traction and earn you $$. Nice work if you can get it. My first thought was "gee, I could do THAT" but you do need a modicum of charisma. (And she has shown me clips that have made me laugh.)
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#28 Janichsan

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:08 AM

View PostMatt Diamond, on 05 June 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:

My daughter tells me that one of her favorite YouTubers got a "notable tweet" (i.e. lots of likes and retweets) for saying that the new Pro looks like (drumroll)...

.. a cheese grater.

I guess if you are the first port of call on the internet for lots of teenagers, even your most stunningly unoriginal observations can get traction and earn you $$. Nice work if you can get it. My first thought was "gee, I could do THAT" but you do need a modicum of charisma. (And she has shown me clips that have made me laugh.)
You should take a look at the Apple related subreddits. It's rare that I have seen one joke so overused so quickly…

Jokes about the $1000 display stand are also more than popular, pretty much all over the net.

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#29 ozzy

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:35 PM

View Postmattw, on 04 June 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

No doubt this will be great for the genuine professional but no attempt has been made to offer an affordable version for the hobbyist.

It also looks like 10.14 is the last MacOS version for my 2009 modded to 5.1 firmware too but I knew I'd have to keep it going as long as possible for my 32-bit game library and a few legacy apps too unless a good Virtual machine option appears with full GPU support for an older MacOS.

I've too many years of iTunes content and saves in Mac formats to jump ship altogether so guess in a year or two I'll just have to get some refurb Mac Mini or something (hope eventually the integrated GPU will exceed an RX580...I hate the idea of being slower at anything) and then just use it for my media libraries and productivity and no more games.

I really preferred just having the one computer for it all (and not having to put time into managing or find space for a console or PC as well) but I don't want to be buying a new computer every few years with soldered in parts and don't need portability - my phone is all I need on the go.

At least the iPad software is improving so maybe I can reduce my need for a computer some more and one day it won't matter anymore.

Agree it would be better if there was a prosumer tower with internal PCI slots. But why not get an eGPU to go with the Mac mini. Yes, it's two boxes, but it's still smaller than one tower, and will deliver more performance than the old 2009-2012 era Mac Pro with better video card options and should be under $2000 total. It's completely plug and play these days (if you use ATI). Again, not as ideal as having a prosumer tower, but still a pretty good option for what you want to do and for gaming.

#30 Sneaky Snake

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:35 PM

Ya I agree on the eGPU setup. It is a great option for many people - especially if you already own a computer with thunderbolt.

I think they just haven't quite hit their stride yet in order to be considered a 'real' option by most people. As they get more popular and cheaper we are going to see them become much more popular and more common place for the Mac Mini, NUCs, ultrabooks, etc. I do believe that no one really wants a desktop, but current laptops and eGPUs are either too expensive or too much of a performance hit for many people so they stick with a desktop for now.

I think with thunderbolt 4 assumingly doubling the bandwidth again we are really going to see them shine as TB3 (along with bad thunderbolt controllers in many laptops) is still a bottleneck for higher end GPUs.

Replacing my gaming desktop with an eGPU and then just plugging a single cable into my laptop when I come home from work to connect my GPU, displays, keyboard/mouse, storage is definitely superior to running 2 systems.
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#31 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 12:49 AM

View PostdevSin, on 04 June 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

The display too is positioned as a replacement for reference displays (usually 10s of thousands of dollars). Makes sense they don't bother with a stand or mount, as people who need such a thing likely have custom stands already.
No, they can't already have a custom stand suited for this display, which uses a proprietary magnetic interface (which isn't bad per se). So in any case you need to either buy the stand or VESA mount kit, otherwise there's no way to use the display.

#32 Camper-Hunter

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 12:58 AM

View Postozzy, on 05 June 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

But why not get an eGPU to go with the Mac mini. Yes, it's two boxes, but it's still smaller than one tower
Smaller in theory, but in practice? Most people have may more room available on the floor than on the desk (you should see mine overflowing...). A tower on the floor uses deserted space, while on the desk it's premium space. Add to that more cables (power and data), which makes it even more of a mess. (You could of course put a Mini on the floor, but I don't think many would do that.)

#33 mattw

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 06:04 AM

When I last looked at eGPU options they were no better than the RX580 I already have now and internal PCI slots performance was better than eGPU.

There are loads of new Macs with better single core performance but improving multi core and GPU enough to justify a big spend is still difficult.

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#34 ozzy

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:19 AM

View PostCamper-Hunter, on 06 June 2019 - 12:58 AM, said:

Smaller in theory, but in practice? Most people have may more room available on the floor than on the desk (you should see mine overflowing...). A tower on the floor uses deserted space, while on the desk it's premium space. Add to that more cables (power and data), which makes it even more of a mess. (You could of course put a Mini on the floor, but I don't think many would do that.)

True - it depends which eGPU you get and how you want to use it. You can get the small Auros/Gigabyte gaming box with an Rx580 that is quite small and only weighs 5 lbs and costs $420 with the Rx580 included. This could sit on a desk as well. The challenge is the power and thermal profile of the Vega's mean they can't work in such a small box. For those you'd need to buy an eGPU enclosure (ranging from ~$200-500 depending on features, size, and power supply). Then you have to buy the video card separately (I recently got a Vega 56 for ~$340).

These boxes generally are fairly large because they house a traditional size video card. I've got an Akitio Node sitting under my desk. Bought a 2m Thunderbolt 3 cable to run from my laptop (which sits on my desk) down to it, and then a 2m Displayport cable to run back up. The performance hit is ~20% for an eGPU vs. the same card internally. Admittedly it's not as elegant as an internal card, but it truly is plug and play in 10.14 with AMD cards and Thunderbolt 3 Macs (and works with Thunderbolt 1/2 Macs, you just need to do some patching).

It's pretty remarkable the flexibility this gives though, and the life it breathes into older macs. My 7 year old 15" Retina MBP with Thunderbolt 1 is only 5-30% (depending on game) slower than a 2018 13" Quad Core MBP with the same Vega 56 though.

Now if Apple and Nvidia would ever figure out their popsnizzle the situation would be much better, because the Nvidia cards have much better thermal profiles and you could get that small Aorus/Gigabyte Gaming Box with a GTX1080 built in for $670 total.

If you want to see the enclosure options check out this page: https://egpu.io/exte...ers-guide-2019/

BTW - if you are curious in gaming performance of eGPU's and whether that might be an option for you I posted a whole bunch of benchmarks with Windows 10, OS 10.13.6, and OS 10.14.4 on a 2012 15" Retina MBP and a 2018 13" MBP with Nvidia 1070 and Vega 56 when I switched from the 1070 to the Vega for Mojave support. Here is the link:

http://www.insidemac...783#entry450568

#35 UmarOMC1

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 02:15 AM

Best bang for buck I still think is Hackintosh, I certainly believe anyone reading this is savvy enough to go that route (hint; it didn't take much). To prove it to myself and give a cool hands on, I bought the parts and walked an 8 and 9 year old through building it- and it was the first computer I ever built. Okay, I installed the motherboard…
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#36 Matt Diamond

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:24 AM

I am tempted by the Hackintosh route, believe me. But I think ongoing maintenance would eventually drive me batty. When Apple releases an update there are extra steps and potential troubleshooting to do. (Example: https://www.tonymacx...-update.236072/)

So it's perfect for some people, and I would be pleased as punch for 3-4 months, but it would start to feel like work after that, and if it stopped working for any reason at any point I would blame myself and buy a regular Mac anyway.
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#37 macdude22

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 09:35 AM

I am unsure of the prospects of Hackintosh come 10.16 when system level kernel extensions are removed. It has been a while since i messed around with a hackintosh, but the last time I looked they relied on custom kexts. Also I am confident that when T2 hardware hits critical mass the ability to change secureboot settings will go away (this is probably a 5+ year timeline). Plus sweet sweet ARMacs.

Hackintosh is like windows, it's great until it's not. Driver breaks this, update breaks that. No thanks. I need to be using my computer not fixing it. All the power to the car/computer hobbyists that like fraking around. I don't.

With how great mini and accesory options are these days I can't fathom why any Apple fan would want to build a hackintosh. Why not just use windows if frakin around is your bag?
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#38 Cougar

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 11:14 AM

Yes, they still rely on custom kexts. They also no longer support Nvidia because they didn’t update their drivers for Mojave.

#39 Janichsan

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 02:26 PM

I'm just watching the WWDC session on System Extensions and DriverKit (which are supposed to replace Kernel Extensions), and that guy giving the talk must be animatronic.

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#40 macdude22

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 02:30 PM

I like that a lot of the presentations are given by deeply technical people instead of smarmy salespeople *cough Angela Ahrendts*
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