20 replies to this topic

[Huntn]

Well, the World of Warcraft Battle Grounds bug finally bit me and I've been playing Arathi Basin for the last week or so as Alliance. What I see consistently is the Horde groups consistently wipe the floor with the Alliance teams. Besides competence and organization, I'm sure there are variable such as the levels of the players involved. My hunter is L53 and I believe the range for my level is 50-58. From experience I know that the it's tough defeating a mob who is 5 levels above you, but not impossible.

Anyway, if there is anyone who plays AB, I'm trolling for opinions on a winning strategy in Arathi Basin.

If your not familiar with Arathi Basin (see map on link), the object is to secure points on the map, a map shaped like a diamond with points on 4 corners and one in the middle. On the opposite long ends of the diamond are the Stables (Alliance side) and the Farm (Horde side). I say Alliance side, because the Stables are closest to the Alliance respawn point. The short ends of the diamond are the Mines (low ground), and the Lumber Mill (high ground). In the center sits the elevated Black Smith, surrounded by water, with bridges to approach. Owning 3 of the 5 spots wins the game. Raid size is 15 people per side I believe.

The biggest mistakes I see is not getting everyone into the raid, for raid chat, and  people streaming out from the respawn point in ones or twos. After respawn it would be better to rally at the Stable and wait until you have a min of 3- 5 people and go as a group. Warriors should be central to your attack strategy. In other words, rally around and support them.

The Black Smith in the center seems to be the most hotly contested point. It seems to me the Alliance should take these bases in the following order 1) stables, 2) lumber mill (height advantage, you can see a lot from there), and 3) black smith. From the Lumber Mill, you can see the Stables, the Black Smith, and the Farm. It's a great spot for surveying enemy positions. If you main group is at the Black Smith, it seems an ideal position to shift them back to the Mill or Stables for counter attacks.

Have one person stop at the Stable and secure it (maybe have 2 people stay there and watch for approaching enemy), have the group hit the Lumber Mill, leave a few behind (in position to survey the approach from the horde side), have the rest hit the Black Smith.  Because of it's central location, the Black Smith location is a must.

Owning the Mine, Lumber Mill and Stables seems harder because your forces are split up with no easy way to move from the Mine to the Lumber Mill.

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

-Hunt'n

[Sternum]

I have to agree -- for some reason, the Alliance side tends to be completely disorganized and easy prey for the Horde. Why is this?

[Tetsuya]

wait... wait... you're Alliance?

I've just lost any respect i had for you

j/k  

seriously though... play Hard Mode:  Play Horde.

[Auron]

Is there some strat for actually get in? I've logged about 24hours total into the queue and never gotten in.

[Drizzt]

Sternum, on November 18th 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

I have to agree -- for some reason, the Alliance side tends to be completely disorganized and easy prey for the Horde. Why is this?

It's often theorized that most of the alliance is made up of younger children living out their LotR fantasies.  These are the same kids who like to play CS and think that they don't need any tactics or real teamwork to win a battle.  By contrast, it's often thought that the older, more mature players go Horde because they enjoy the thought of being the underdog, and got tired of dealing with all the teen angst that plagues the alliance.  Having played in the BGs on both sides of the fence (Alliance & Horde), I'm willing to agree with those thoeries overall.  While there are exceptions to this, I've found that these things are more often than not, true.  It makes me wish my guild had decided to be a horde guild as the idea was tossed around at the start of my server, but ah well.  They're one of the guilds with most of the older, more mature alliance players for our server.

With regards to AB, the one thing I've seen posted a lot is that you shouldn't worry about holding onto the blacksmith.  For alliance you obviously should always have the stables.  From there you need to make sure you keep a firm hold on the mines and the lumber mill at all times.  If things are going slow on both fronts, then maybe branching out to either the blacksmith or the horde's farm could send them in a bit of a tizzy.  The biggest challenge you face is keeping everyone organized and on the same page to pull this off.

[Joe M.]

The key to Arathi Basin is having teammates that can fight their way out of a paper bag. Simple? Yes, but also very true.

For example, today my (alliance) team lost one game. One game in a few dozen, if not more.

We send five people to Blacksmith, five people to Mill, 4 people to Mine and 1 person to Stables. Each of the first three groups has one designated defender at those three resources. We expect to take Stables, of course, and at least two of the other three. If we're outnumbered at one location, stall until help can arrive. Once those four resources are taken, we push on the farm. At this point, you can rotate your defense around depending on where the other team tries to push.

But EVERYONE has to pull their weight. If you fold up like a cheap card table in 1v1 then chances are you'll booted from the team. Failure isn't acceptable.

[Huntn]

Auron, on November 18th 2005, 11:49 AM, said:

Is there some strat for actually get in? I've logged about 24hours total into the queue and never gotten in.

My Level 53 Hunter gets into AB all the time for the last 2 weeks that I've been interested in BGs. But my 34 Warlock, has never gotten in. When you sign up for the que, right click on the BG icon on your minimap. It shows how long it took the last 10 players to get in.  If it says "unavailable", that is a bad sign. I wonder if AB is even up and running for someone in their 30s?

I'm also under the impression, that you get in faster as a solo player or maybe 2, than if you have a raid of 15 formed trying to get in. But that is unconfirmed.

-Hunt'n

[Huntn]

Drizzt, on November 18th 2005, 01:58 PM, said:

It's often theorized that most of the alliance is made up of younger children living out their LotR fantasies.  These are the same kids who like to play CS and think that they don't need any tactics or real teamwork to win a battle.  By contrast, it's often thought that the older, more mature players go Horde because they enjoy the thought of being the underdog, and got tired of dealing with all the teen angst that plagues the alliance.

I have no basis to dispute this statement regarding the average age of Alliance vs Horde, but I do realize that organized groups are going to have it all over, a disorganized, leadership-less pick-up-group (pug). I can't say that is solely a function of age, but it is a function of dedication, coordination, and as mentioned in one reply, the ability to fight your way out of a paper bag.

-Hunt'n

[Huntn]

Joe M., on November 19th 2005, 03:20 AM, said:

The key to Arathi Basin is having teammates that can fight their way out of a paper bag. Simple? Yes, but also very true.

For example, today my (alliance) team lost one game. One game in a few dozen, if not more.

We send five people to Blacksmith, five people to Mill, 4 people to Mine and 1 person to Stables. Each of the first three groups has one designated defender at those three resources. We expect to take Stables, of course, and at least two of the other three. If we're outnumbered at one location, stall until help can arrive. Once those four resources are taken, we push on the farm. At this point, you can rotate your defense around depending on where the other team tries to push.

But EVERYONE has to pull their weight. If you fold up like a cheap card table in 1v1 then chances are you'll booted from the team. Failure isn't acceptable.

You must be referring to a dedicted group. I don't think a pick-up-group (pug) would be able to achieve the coordination your talking about in the one min prep time you get after entering the BG.

I can't over emphasis the importance of strength in numbers.

It seems to me that owning the Stables, Mill, and BS would tactically be superior to owning the Stables, Mill, and Mine, just because the first 3 are grouped together, the second three are split and harder to shift forces.

-Hunt'n

[Sternum]

Huntn, on November 19th 2005, 07:53 AM, said:

It seems to me that owning the Stables, Mill, and BS would tactically be superior to owning the Stables, Mill, and Mine, just because the first 3 are grouped together, the second three are split and harder to shift forces.

-Hunt'n

The nice thing about taking the mine and the mill is that they're easier to defend, and the horde is forced to leave itself vulnerable in the middle in order to wage an effective offensive against either point. In my most recent game, the Alliance took the edges and the Horde had the blacksmith. When they'd try to attack the mine, the defenders in the mill would sweep down and attack the blacksmith, and when they'd attack the mill, the guys at the mine would do the same thing. We basically kept them running in circles until we got the win.

As a hunter, I've found that the mill is the best place to keep tabs on the entire battlefield, though, so I consider it essential. With eagle eye, you can watch every point, even the mine (there's a little cleft of rock on the edge of the cliff you can hit that gives you a nice overhead view of the action). In the aforementioned game, I played spotter and relayed information to the paladin playing general. It worked extremely well in keeping everyone organized. The horde had serious trouble getting the jump on us.

[JustinSane]

Most of the time the Alliance is steamrolled by some Horde uber guild on my server, but some of the time we lose because of a huge problem with PvP- disorganization.

As you've probably noticed, PvP is much easier if you "join a group" with a raid.  This gives you time to set up a strategy beforehand, and boot out any unruly players.

My general AB raids have 1 defender (generally a Paladin, as shielding up is a great anti-sap device) on the stables, 2 defenders at the Lumber Mill(generally a mage and a melee/priest character because of the fact that there're only two ways to get up to the flag) and from there we generally attack the farm with half of the rest of our force which draws the Horde back to their base about 75% of the time while the rest of us go after the Blacksmith.

The Blacksmith is probably the hardest position to defend, due to it being in the center of the area.  Our main strategy for BS attacks is to have one of us judge our chances of survival:

If they look good we stay and guard the BS

If they don't, we break and assault the mines to keep the Horde on their toes.


I'm sure you've all heard this before, but the goal of AB is to STICK TOGETHER (quoth every raid leader of all time).

Oh yeah, and it's great to have 2 Rogues run around the area just looking for stragglers who may be trying to assault random things.

[Tetsuya]

the best 3 nodes to control are the Mill, Blacksmith, and Farm.

2-3 defenders at each node, and a party that sits on the crossroads between the 3 nodes to rush defenders to where they need to be.  

There are no terrain obstaclles to ride around, and reinforcements can get from the middle area to any node almost at need.

[IPY da Pinhead]

1: Get someone with the BGinvite addon to create the raid as soon as the game starts, most PUG AB games that fail, fail because there are several little raid groups going on. You all NEED to be in one raid group to co-ordinate.

2: When coming out of your starting gates, make sure only ONE person goes for the stables/farm flag. Often you'll see something like 5 or 6 dumbasses all trying to cap this initial uncontested flag.

3: The mill is a good point to control. Rogues can jump off the cliffs with minimal damage, ,mages can blink or slowfall to avoid damage and with slowfall can even levitate from the mill -> BS.

4: For a co-ordinated group, the BS is crucial. This point is within equal distance of the other 4 and can be used to reinforce any of your flags quickly if they look like they're being zerged.

5: Use at least 5 people to try and take a contested flag, always keep a minimum of two people defending a flag, with one being a healer.

6: 3 points will win the game, don't be stupid and spread yourselves thin by trying to hold 4, BUT do keep your rogues checking out enemy points in case they leave them unattended - as by tapping the point, even if you don't cap will deny them resources.

7: One good strat is to leave one person on the farm/stables, then have at least 10 people head for the blacksmith and take and control that, the other 4 can capture the mines/mill. Once you have 3 points make sure that you've got 2, preferably 3 people defending each point ( Defense of a point is ALWAYS easier than trying to TAKE a point) All the extras should remain mounted at or near the BS or the bridge that lies at the centre of your points - If anything is under threat you can use this "flying team" to quickly reinforce and take out attackers.

8: Communication, every little detail helps - get that raid chat flooded with people reporting what is happening and when they see the opposing faction  so that everyone has an understanding of where the enemy is and what they might do next, information wins wars.

There Hope that helps from a vet of a LOT of Pug AB games, if you get a good group too, stick with it and keep queuing.

[Huntn]

IPY da Pinhead, on November 20th 2005, 05:31 AM, said:

1: Get someone with the BGinvite addon to create the raid as soon as the game starts, most PUG AB games that fail, fail because there are several little raid groups going on. You all NEED to be in one raid group to co-ordinate......................

Thanks for the feedback! Great info.

This will really display what kind of newb I am...
I've been in many raid, but have never created one. How do you turn your party into a raid? I am using CTMod.

-Hunt'n

[Drizzt]

Huntn, on November 21st 2005, 0[I, said:

3:30 PM]
Thanks for the feedback! Great info.

This will really display what kind of newb I am...
I've been in many raid, but have never created one. How do you turn your party into a raid? I am using CTMod.

-Hunt'n

I've never done it either, but I think if you have a current 5 man party, and you go under your social pane to the Raid tab that there will be an option to convert to raid.

[IPY da Pinhead]

Drizzt, on November 22nd 2005, 05:24 AM, said:

I've never done it either, but I think if you have a current 5 man party, and you go under your social pane to the Raid tab that there will be an option to convert to raid.

Yep, that's correct - the functionality is in the default UI and doesn't require CTraid (which is really a PvE addon anyway) If you're into AB in a big way, or WSG for that matter BGinvite does make life easier. It's an addon that can create a raid at the click of a button and issues invites to every person in the battleground, it will also auto-boot people that have left the BG, and auto-invite people who join, so it makes life a lot easier.

If you want to get really hardcore you can try a Vent/TS server - but that usually requires a bit more planning, which is why if you go up against a group using it (and they'll be a guild too) you're screwed

[Huntn]

IPY da Pinhead, on November 21st 2005, 09:51 PM, said:

Yep, that's correct - the functionality is in the default UI and doesn't require CTraid (which is really a PvE addon anyway) If you're into AB in a big way, or WSG for that matter BGinvite does make life easier. It's an addon that can create a raid at the click of a button and issues invites to every person in the battleground, it will also auto-boot people that have left the BG, and auto-invite people who join, so it makes life a lot easier.

If you want to get really hardcore you can try a Vent/TS server - but that usually requires a bit more planning, which is why if you go up against a group using it (and they'll be a guild too) you're screwed

I'll look for BGinvite. Teamspeak would be great, but I know what your talking about...for use by guild members configured in advance with a TS server.

Thanks for the info!
-Hunt'n

[Huntn]

I was excited about BGinvite, but when I installed it, it appears not be updated for the latest WoW patch. That seems to be a frequent problem with AddOns, the authors have to be quick about keeping their products up to date. And it was the reason, I switched from Cosmos, back to CTMod. The authors of CTMod, come out with new updated versions usually within a day of a new patch.

-Hunt'n

[Hog]

1: anyone else notice that when one side (the enemy) owns all the bases the frequency by which resources are added is much faster? not 2/3 times faster than when you own 3 but the game is over in like 20 seconds. -> you can get about 1/3 of 50 reputation points within a minute this way instead of 110 points in atleast 10 or 20 minutes or however it long it takes you to hold 3 bases.

2: if you are playing for honor points: don't. honor ranks are relative to other players and you are not going to make a decent rank when playing less than 20 hours a day.

3: unless you are getting payed to play the game, quit the game and do something that is fun or maybe something that is profitable.

[yllamana]

In my humble opinion, the basic key to winning AB at the PuG level is to not zerg. If you have a zerging team against a non-zerging team, the zerging team will end up controlling one node (whichever one they've zerged to) and the non-zerging team will control the other four.

If you play a zerging team against a non-zerging team, the non-zerging team will win every time. I think this is why particular sides on certain servers lose all the time. It's just the strategy that side subconsciously uses - zerging or not.

Also critical is that your team actually wants to work together. If you have three raid groups going, you're probably going to lose.

Just getting your team to not zerg will let you win most pick-up games.