Jump to content


Steam Link coming to iOS and tvOS


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:40 AM

Apple does not care about desktop or console gaming. We all know this. Some of us even recognize it as a reasoned choice. Getting mad about the walled garden? Seriously? Welcome to the brave new world of them that also includes Amazon, Google and Microsoft. Nothing works on Amazon devices but Amazon store apps. Amazon won't sell competing ecosystem devices in its store. Google responds by deliberately locking Amazon device users out from Google Apps including the Google Play Store. New Microsoft games are exclusive to its store. Some Mac games require Steam. Sorry App Store users. iCloud on the web is inaccessible on Android. It would work but Apple doesn't want it to. There's plenty more of this crap I am not thinking of I am sure. Since when is proprietary software and services some new and outrageous thing?

Pick your poison(s) but Apple is hardly the only one to protect its interests which again, DO NOT INCLUDE GAMES THAT AREN'T FOR iOS!!! Of course they don't want Steam and unsupported controllers. It doesn't matter. It was popsnizzle to begin with. Apple support has better things to do than field calls from people trying to play PC games on an Apple TV, probably streamed wirelessly because most homes aren't wired with Ethernet not to mention controllers they don't want to hear about. Is that really hard to understand? It's a big surprise is it?

How can any of this be difficult to understand? You can have whatever you want but you cannot reasonably expect a major corporation to do stupid things just because it works for you. Sorry. Welcome to reality. I get a kick out of comments about how Apple is out to lunch, makes bad business decisions, doesn't understand their customers, gaming, etc. I think I'll trust Warren Buffett and Bill Gates for the Apple business commentary, thanks.

Xbox streams games? What games are these?

I'm glad to hear the Nvidia options work well for you Frost. The problem for many people isn't even the gear you're packing at home or elsewhere. The problem is the Internet, the ISPs with no real motivation to invest in improved infrastructure and accessibility and various other issues which get into territory we do not visit here. For many, this is the greatest bottleneck.

Additionally, it is a fair assumption that most people as it stands today do not have hardware clustered together in one room. So wireless performance becomes another potential issue for many.  Additionally, for now at least the game selection is lacking as well. In short, on the whole this just isn't ready for Prime time and that is exact why it is not incredibly popular the way video streaming that is far less demanding is. From this I conclude it simply isn't a good option for most people yet and given the current state of the internet in the US at least, it will be a good long while before it is. I'm sure this is why Xbox Game Pass is not a streaming service. It's not worth doing yet. It's a lot simpler and better to just download what you want to play on that service and enjoy full fidelity with zero issues.

The whole point of PC gaming is maximum power, the highest frame rates, the top tier graphical fidelity, the mods and lastly its exclusives. Why then would anyone want to compromise this by streaming it to a television or mobile device? It's never really going to fly in a big way because it just isn't worth it to most people. If it was, it would be everywhere. Everybody would be all over this but they aren't.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#22 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:34 PM

View Postmacdude22, on 25 May 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

Do it. list em. I brought coffee.

Posted Image

Since you asked and in an effort to not be pointless and stay on topic, I'll toss this out as an alternative to the Steam app on an Apple TV:

1.) It's possible (new and relevant development!)
2.) All Xbox games support the controller, not less than half of them as with PC games.
3.) No streaming required. Full fidelity at all times. No hassles. It just works.
4.) Game Pass. No streaming, etc. Library of quality titles. Download and play. Day 1 access to platform exclusives. Cheap.
5.) EA Access. Same as above. Less titles but only 30 bucks annually.
6.) Higher tier performance available with Xbox One X on standard HD televisions, 4K & HDR support increasingly available which I doubt is available via streaming solutions.
7.) Excellent backward compatibility options now spanning two previous generations. Morrowind GOTY with pixel count increased x16, increased draw distance and controller support? Yes, please! KOTOR I & II, Jade Empire and more OG Xbox goodness. Red Dead Redemption looking nearly as good as a current gen game. Hell, yes. Steam can't give you this on television for the most part.
8.) Aside of the obvious common features, all of this is absent from the PS4. I brought up consoles vs Steam on tv sets as a plus for Mac gamers and in the context of this discussion, viable alternatives became more than a little on topic since Steam isn't happening without a PC and Steamlink.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#23 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6183 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:17 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 26 May 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Xbox streams games? What games are these?

Anything on the Xbox One. They built streaming from your Xbox One to your Windows PC into the Xbox app on Windows 10. It wasn't too great when it launched but they quickly improved it and it's almost on-par with NVIDIA's in-home streaming now as far as image quality and lack of input lag. There's also a Mac app (OneCast) that'll let you stream onto a Mac as well, and while not endorsed by Microsoft, they are aware of and haven't stopped the developer either.

It works just like NVIDIA GameStream though: GameStream requires you to have a PC to stream from. X1 streaming requires you to have an X1 to stream from. Both do really well in-home, IMO. You're streaming from your own hardware, not from the cloud. Saves the trouble of unplugging and moving stuff back and forth between rooms.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 3.6 GHz i7 9900K / 32GB RAM / 2x2TB Intel 7600p (RAID0), 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / TITAN V 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 4TB Samsung 860 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 2001) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Micron M600 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#24 Cougar

Cougar

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1547 posts
  • Steam Name:FuzzyPuffin

Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

Interesting development: https://www.macstori...-app-rejection/

I donít really understand the reasons given that itís really no different from a VNC app, but itíll be interesting to see how the app differs from the current Android version if it comes out.

#25 Janichsan

Janichsan

    Jugger Bugger

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8308 posts
  • Steam Name:Janichsan
  • Location:over there

Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:12 PM

View PostCougar, on 26 May 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

I don't really understand the reasons given that it's really no different from a VNC app, but it'll be interesting to see how the app differs from the current Android version if it comes out.
I think the difference is that the Steam Link app basically comes with a built-in store over which Apple has no control.

"We do what we must, because we can."
"Gaming on a Mac is like women on the internet." — "Highly common and totally awesome?"


#26 Cougar

Cougar

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1547 posts
  • Steam Name:FuzzyPuffin

Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:36 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 26 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:


I think the difference is that the Steam Link app basically comes with a built-in store over which Apple has no control.

So does the Steam mobile app.

#27 Janichsan

Janichsan

    Jugger Bugger

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8308 posts
  • Steam Name:Janichsan
  • Location:over there

Posted 27 May 2018 - 12:15 AM

View PostCougar, on 26 May 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

So does the Steam mobile app.
But you can't use that app to play the games as well.

"We do what we must, because we can."
"Gaming on a Mac is like women on the internet." — "Highly common and totally awesome?"


#28 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 27 May 2018 - 03:28 AM

View PostFrost, on 26 May 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

Anything on the Xbox One. They built streaming from your Xbox One to your Windows PC into the Xbox app on Windows 10. It wasn't too great when it launched but they quickly improved it and it's almost on-par with NVIDIA's in-home streaming now as far as image quality and lack of input lag. There's also a Mac app (OneCast) that'll let you stream onto a Mac as well, and while not endorsed by Microsoft, they are aware of and haven't stopped the developer either.

It works just like NVIDIA GameStream though: GameStream requires you to have a PC to stream from. X1 streaming requires you to have an X1 to stream from. Both do really well in-home, IMO. You're streaming from your own hardware, not from the cloud. Saves the trouble of unplugging and moving stuff back and forth between rooms.

Oh, please Frost. Come on. Have mercy will you? Who the hell wants to stream console games to a PC in their house? We were talking about streaming TO a television not away from it or do some folks like streaming from console to PC to Steamlink back to television just because they can? Once again, this for the brave few would likely be over wireless. Have fun with that.

I'm sorry but I honestly had to lol at that one. You don't do that do you?
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#29 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 27 May 2018 - 04:01 AM

View PostJanichsan, on 27 May 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

But you can't use that app to play the games as well.

I get the impression that somebody screwed up approving it to begin with and upper management killed it. Note the text about Valve games and services on iOS. Yeah, iOS Valve games and Steam chat.

Allowing Valve a toll free highway with a large library of games onto iOS seems quite unlikely to happen. That's about as likely as Valve slithering into living rooms via Xboxes and PlayStations.

Gabe would love a free ride into tv land but that's not going to happen. The Steambox should have been a Windows PC with keyboard, mouse and controller support and all that stuff should have shipped with it for $500. to be competitive with consoles. Unfortunately, Gabe has a huge problem there. He cannot afford to subsidize the hardware the way console vendors can and do. The Steambox was supposed to solve this problem but it failed miserably.

See, even you guys talking here want to play in your living room sometimes. Nobody is going to give Valve a free ride there. Why would anyone think Apple should? They promote, sell and profit greatly from iOS games. If Valve wants in on iOS then they ought to start developing games for the platform because no retailer is going to let you setup shop in their store selling competing stuff.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#30 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6183 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:33 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 27 May 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Oh, please Frost. Come on. Have mercy will you? Who the hell wants to stream console games to a PC in their house? We were talking about streaming TO a television not away from it or do some folks like streaming from console to PC to Steamlink back to television just because they can? Once again, this for the brave few would likely be over wireless. Have fun with that.

I'm sorry but I honestly had to lol at that one. You don't do that do you?

I'm talking about people with more than just one place they sit and game. Maybe my home office with my PC is on another floor from my home theater and console, and I feel like kicking back in the office chair and pulling up an Xbox 360 game on the Xbox One. I just turn on the DualShock 4 I've got connected to my PC, open the Xbox app, and there we go.

If I want to play a PC game in the home theater, I just go the opposite direction with the Shield TV unit.

It's really not as complicated and hocus pocus as you make it sound. It's no different from using an Apple TV's screen mirroring feature to put something from your iPhone or iPad onto the TV, which *gasp* people use every day. I'm just using it to play videogames instead of show off the selfie I took eating a cookie at Starbucks. Unplugging and hauling PCs and consoles around the house and stringing cables just to do something at another spot is something from the previous decade.

For instance, I'm sitting outside at my patio table right now because it's a nice day and doing some paperwork on my MacBook Pro. I felt like taking a break and foruming. But if I felt like taking an Xbox break instead, presto, I just opened an app and hit connect:

Attached Files


Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 3.6 GHz i7 9900K / 32GB RAM / 2x2TB Intel 7600p (RAID0), 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / TITAN V 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 4TB Samsung 860 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 2001) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Micron M600 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#31 Cougar

Cougar

    Master Blaster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1547 posts
  • Steam Name:FuzzyPuffin

Posted 27 May 2018 - 03:02 PM

View PostJanichsan, on 27 May 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

But you can't use that app to play the games as well.

So if the apps are separate, it's fine, but together, suddenly you have a problem? I don't get it.

Apple needs to lighten up. This app does not threaten native iOS apps in any way. You need to be on a good LAN and you need a controller (for a decent experience, anyway).

#32 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6183 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 27 May 2018 - 03:41 PM

View PostCougar, on 27 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:



So if the apps are separate, it's fine, but together, suddenly you have a problem? I don't get it.

Apple needs to lighten up. This app does not threaten native iOS apps in any way. You need to be on a good LAN and you need a controller (for a decent experience, anyway).

Agree. And the various controllers Steam supports, including Sony’s and Microsoft’s, are an order of magnitude better than any of the dogpopsnizzle MFi certified controllers I’ve ever laid hands on.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 3.6 GHz i7 9900K / 32GB RAM / 2x2TB Intel 7600p (RAID0), 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / TITAN V 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 4TB Samsung 860 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 2001) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Micron M600 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#33 Janichsan

Janichsan

    Jugger Bugger

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8308 posts
  • Steam Name:Janichsan
  • Location:over there

Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:10 AM

View PostCougar, on 27 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

So if the apps are separate, it's fine, but together, suddenly you have a problem? I don't get it.

Apple needs to lighten up. This app does not threaten native iOS apps in any way.
Doesn't matter. That the app allows you to make financial transactions not approved by Apple to purchase content not approved by Apple and to directly play it on your Apple approved iDevice Ė even if you need one hell of a peripheral for that Ė is in Apple's eyes a breach of their wonderful walled garden.

Phil Schiller beats a bit around the bush in his statement from the weekend, but it's clear that this is precisely the issue they have with the SteamLink app. That, plus filthy, filthy titty mods.

"We do what we must, because we can."
"Gaming on a Mac is like women on the internet." — "Highly common and totally awesome?"


#34 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM

View PostFrost, on 27 May 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I'm talking about people with more than just one place they sit and game. Maybe my home office with my PC is on another floor from my home theater and console, and I feel like kicking back in the office chair and pulling up an Xbox 360 game on the Xbox One. I just turn on the DualShock 4 I've got connected to my PC, open the Xbox app, and there we go.

If I want to play a PC game in the home theater, I just go the opposite direction with the Shield TV unit.

It's really not as complicated and hocus pocus as you make it sound. It's no different from using an Apple TV's screen mirroring feature to put something from your iPhone or iPad onto the TV, which *gasp* people use every day. I'm just using it to play videogames instead of show off the selfie I took eating a cookie at Starbucks. Unplugging and hauling PCs and consoles around the house and stringing cables just to do something at another spot is something from the previous decade.

For instance, I'm sitting outside at my patio table right now because it's a nice day and doing some paperwork on my MacBook Pro. I felt like taking a break and foruming. But if I felt like taking an Xbox break instead, presto, I just opened an app and hit connect:

The above edge case conveniently ignores how unlikely the described scenario is for the vast majority of consumers. Again, this stuff which as you point out works now for you, is nowhere because nobody cares.

Steamlink is cheap but does it sell like hotcakes? No, Valve gives them away. Nobody cares except maybe the Tom's Hardware crowd about trying to make a console out of a PC.

If the office chair beats your living room for comfort maybe it's time for some new living room furniture? Maybe skip a six hundred dollar video card and put it towards a recliner?

I think you are really reaching for straws when I am supposed to appreciate the benefit of being able to take an Xbox break outdoors on your MacBook Pro. Do you always bring your controller outside too just in case you might feel like doing this? You are presenting examples here of things that people do not normally care about doing as if that represents an everyday value for the average person. Don't get me wrong.  If you like doing that and it works for you, great but that doesn't make it a selling point for most people. Just because you can do something doesn't make it an ideal way of doing it. Allow me to demonstrate:

You want to play a game in your office and you have a powerful gaming PC.  So you play a PC game on the thing.

You want to play a console game and you have an Xbox One X. You enjoy the comfort of your living room and do it.

You want to take a little gaming break while doing some work outdoors. You fire up some casual or other  Mac game on your MacBook.

In all three cases, you take the path of least resistance which is normal human behavior. You don't need extra apps or hardware. The stuff all just works with zero additional steps. No Nvidia shield, no remembering to bring your controller with you outside, no added apps to install and zero compromise in quality - I mean absolute 100% zero. This is the way the typical person operates. It's why they rejected Steamlink in the majority.

The majority, the huge overwhelming majority is NOT you guys. I don't think you get that.  This stuff sinks or swims based on the majority and they can't be bothered and they are not willing to pay for stuff like this. One more time, this would be everywhere now except for one little problem. It's a solution looking for a problem that does not exist for enough consumers to justify its existence.

On topic here, about Steam on Apple hardware, not PCs, Nvidia Shield or Xbox for that matter my entire point has been that streaming PC games to a television sucks because in most cases it does. One more time, if it was great everybody would be all over it. They aren't. That right there says it all. My suggestion in light of this and therefore also on topic is just get a fraking console if you want to play games on your TV.  They are made for this and excel at it.

“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#35 DirtyHarry50

DirtyHarry50

    Special Snowflake

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1796 posts
  • Steam Name:DirtyHarry
  • Steam ID:dirtyharry2
  • Location:North Carolina, USA

Posted 28 May 2018 - 11:36 PM

View PostCougar, on 27 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

So if the apps are separate, it's fine, but together, suddenly you have a problem? I don't get it.

Apple needs to lighten up. This app does not threaten native iOS apps in any way. You need to be on a good LAN and you need a controller (for a decent experience, anyway).

No, it isn't fine. Valve isn't getting a free ride into iOS. Everybody else pays a percentage per game, app or subscription. Valve is not going to be selling games that can be played on iOS for free. That seems reasonable enough to me. Windows is the only operating system aside of the irrelevant Linux where this kind of free ride happens and Microsoft is working on their App Store and hardware to end this party too but a conversation about this last point can happen in off topic if anyone wants to have it.
“The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.” — Bertrand Russell

#36 Frost

Frost

    Secretary of Offense

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6183 posts
  • Steam ID:CaptFrost
  • Location:Republic of Texas
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:07 PM

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

The above edge case conveniently ignores how unlikely the described scenario is for the vast majority of consumers. Again, this stuff which as you point out works now for you, is nowhere because nobody cares.

Steamlink is cheap but does it sell like hotcakes? No, Valve gives them away. Nobody cares except maybe the Tom's Hardware crowd about trying to make a console out of a PC.

I think you're confusing self with everyone. Nobody uses it, nobody cares, it's dead... which is why NVIDIA, Valve, Microsoft, and Sony are either competing or collaborating or a combination thereof on various solutions to reach what is supposedly an almost non-existent subset of gamers. Right. Sure.

The only one who's failed utterly in the market was Sony, and that was on the hardware end. The OG PS4 was woefully underpowered for encoding a stream and couldn't do better than laggy 720p, and nobody wanted a PStv because it was an underpowered POS that used a 12 year-old controller design almost nobody liked and locked down hardware that wouldn't play anything but PS Vita games, and even then only if they didn't use the Vita's touchscreen. To be fair, Sony turned it around though. Their PC and Mac streaming solution is doing well and regularly updated, and the revised PS4 hardware got attention so it's actually up to the task of sending out 1080p/60 at low latency now.

Microsoft is doing fine, they didn't jump the gun and brought their tech in with everything already ready to go. They're just not focused on it as much so use cases are more limited.

NVIDIA's GameStream tech is part of what put Steam Big Picture and Steam streaming on the map because it finally got lag down enough and graphical fidelity high enough to stream to the living room (if you're using a GeForce-equipped PC, Valve actually doesn't use their homegrown streaming tech they cooperated with AMD on, they use NVIDIA's) without a crappy gaming experience.

Valve "gives them away" during sales because they want a slice of their own pie and they also want to encourage further market penetration and the Steamlink is dirt cheap to produce. Steam in-home streaming does get used, but mainly using either another computer or NVIDIA hardware, not Valve hardware. There's no "cheap" solution right now as another computer is far from cheap, and a SATV box is about the price of an Apple TV (albeit vastly more capable). A phone or tablet though? Everybody's got that, and they're fast enough for proper decoding. Hence Valve's trying a software solution with devices everybody already has.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

If the office chair beats your living room for comfort maybe it's time for some new living room furniture? Maybe skip a six hundred dollar video card and put it towards a recliner?

I've got a Steelcase Leap in my home office and a La-Z-Boy in my home theater, I'm covered, thanks.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

I think you are really reaching for straws when I am supposed to appreciate the benefit of being able to take an Xbox break outdoors on your MacBook Pro. Do you always bring your controller outside too just in case you might feel like doing this? You are presenting examples here of things that people do not normally care about doing as if that represents an everyday value for the average person. Don't get me wrong.  If you like doing that and it works for you, great but that doesn't make it a selling point for most people. Just because you can do something doesn't make it an ideal way of doing it.

My way is directly supported and actively developed from both from the hardware end by everybody except Nintendo and AMD. Even then, Nintendo is aware of the convenience and makes moving the Switch around and going from handheld to TV and back again a breeze, so they're addressing that market from the hardware end, and AMD has put a good bit of effort into competing with NVIDIA's solutions; they just don't offer their own hardware.

Ask yourself this: is it a grand conspiracy to push something nobody wants, or do they have a large enough subset of customers interested in that capability that it's worth supporting? Which one makes more business sense, a conspiracy, or profitability?

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Allow me to demonstrate:

You want to play a game in your office and you have a powerful gaming PC.  So you play a PC game on the thing.

You want to play a console game and you have an Xbox One X. You enjoy the comfort of your living room and do it.

You want to take a little gaming break while doing some work outdoors. You fire up some casual or other  Mac game on your MacBook.

In all three cases, you take the path of least resistance which is normal human behavior. You don't need extra apps or hardware. The stuff all just works with zero additional steps.

You're demonstrating you're stuck ten years ago. No additional steps to you is having to do this here, and that there, and that's it. When reality, that is lots of additional steps. Physical ones even. And yes, I do chuck a controller in my laptop bag with my MacBook Pro when I go somewhere, because a controller and a cable is hardly any extra weight in the bag.

The real path of least resistance: doing anything, anywhere, anytime.

View PostDirtyHarry50, on 28 May 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

The majority, the huge overwhelming majority is NOT you guys. I don't think you get that.  This stuff sinks or swims based on the majority and they can't be bothered and they are not willing to pay for stuff like this. One more time, this would be everywhere now except for one little problem. It's a solution looking for a problem that does not exist for enough consumers to justify its existence.

On topic here, about Steam on Apple hardware, not PCs, Nvidia Shield or Xbox for that matter my entire point has been that streaming PC games to a television sucks because in most cases it does. One more time, if it was great everybody would be all over it. They aren't. That right there says it all. My suggestion in light of this and therefore also on topic is just get a fraking console if you want to play games on your TV.  They are made for this and excel at it.

No. I'm in this business. Things sink or swim based on whether there is enough market to be profitable. There is. Almost half the machines I shipped to end users (my main focus is business to business, but I do direct to individual for some areas) in March ended up wanting a Shield TV unit to go with them once they were aware of what it could do and got a demo. A few even went the NUC route pre-configured for in-home streaming along with HTPC capability, although those were definitely a tiny minority. Now, granted, I don't compete in the popsnizzlety budget box market, I go for the high end so it's a lot more likely for someone to buy that kind of extra. But even so, that says a lot and is very different from last year. I've had more Shield TVs purchased and included with computers since January this year than in the entirety of 2017. If Valve gets approval from Apple, Apple TVs will likely start getting thrown into the mix too.

Now I have you on the one hand here saying nobody's using it and nobody cares, and in similar threads everybody's playing on consoles and PCs are on the way out. But on the other hand hard data shows PC gaming is booming, console hardware is flat or floundering for the past 18 months, streaming is becoming more common, and I have my balance sheet for this year backing that up. Plus moves by hardware and software giants to compete at addressing a market you're telling me is so small it basically doesn't exist.

I'm sure it doesn't make sense to you, you don't like it, and it's not something you care to use. I get that. And you're right, you are the majority of the market. So far.  The market is a minority, but it is also large enough to be addressed profitably and it does most certainly exist far outside of being some extreme edge case that you're trying to paint it as for I don't know what reason.

If you think the market for something like Valve's app is basically non-existent because gosh, nobody does in-home streaming of any kind... I'm sorry, but you're both wrong and you're out of date.
Kestrel (Falcon NW Tiki) – 3.6 GHz i7 9900K / 32GB RAM / 2x2TB Intel 7600p (RAID0), 2x480GB Intel 730 (RAID0), 10TB STX BarraCuda Pro / TITAN V 12GB
Iridium (MacBook Pro Mid-2012) – 2.7 GHz i7 3820QM / 16GB RAM / 4TB Samsung 860 Pro / GeForce GT 650M 1GB
Antimony (PowerBook G4 2001) – 1.0 GHz PPC 7455 / 1GB RAM / 512GB Micron M600 / Radeon 9000 64MB

Eric5h5:
When there's a multiplayer version, I'm going to be on Frost's team. Well, except he doesn't seem to actually need a team...I mean, what's the point? "Hey look, it's Frost and His Merry Gang of Useless Hangers-On!" Or something.

#37 Sneaky Snake

Sneaky Snake

    Official Mascot of the 1988 Winter Olympics

  • IMG Writers
  • 3356 posts
  • Steam Name:SneakySnake
  • Steam ID:sneaky_snake
  • Location:Waterloo, Canada

Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:09 PM

Frost I expect 1 font size larger when you respond. Harry has started a FONT WAR!

I can confirm that the both Playstation and Xbox streaming work very well.

I stream Halo:MCC from my Xbox One X to my gaming PC and after about 15 minutes or so I forget I am streaming the game. The graphical fidelity is not as good, but once I get immersed in the game I don't notice it. I always play God of War 4 from my PS4 Pro to my PC via streaming. I hate not being able to alt-tab to other stuff on console, so I'd rather stream to my PC for non-competitive games and that way I'm still in my nice PC world of app switching, web browser, etc.
2015 13" rMBP: i5 5257U @ 2.7 GHz || Intel Iris 6100 || 8 GB LPDDR3 1866 || 256 GB SSD || macOS High Sierra
Gaming Build: i5 8400 || Vega 56 || 16 GB DDR4 || 960 Evo NVMe || Win10 Pro
Other: 30TB Plex Server || Xbox One X || PS4 Pro || iPhone X

#38 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2156 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

I don't know a single adult with kids that cares about streaming games. There's a niche but it's not big. Big enough to justify some investment from Valve and Nvidia maybe, but its small potatoes. There's a select few folks here that are really passionate about streaming tech, and that's great but it's nowhere near mainstream and I don't see it becoming mainstream. Your average joe wants to plop down and play a tapper or Halo or Mario. Shield TVs and Steam Links are absolutely edge cases, I don't see those winds changing anytime soon.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD

#39 Sneaky Snake

Sneaky Snake

    Official Mascot of the 1988 Winter Olympics

  • IMG Writers
  • 3356 posts
  • Steam Name:SneakySnake
  • Steam ID:sneaky_snake
  • Location:Waterloo, Canada

Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:36 PM

Streaming games to end-users directly from a data center is almost certainly the end goal. The in-home stuff I expect is just the beta test for what will ultimately come next. Nvidia's Game Streaming tech has been out for a few years and now they are developing Geforce Now. I expect all of that home game streaming tech was the gateway dev environment for datacenter->home game streaming. Nvidia has already published that you will be able to pay more for a better graphics experience.

Valve, Microsoft, Sony, etc. all are salivating at the thought of signing people up for a $X/month all you can game buffet. Corporations love subscription revenue models. End users will love that popsnizzle too. Subscription models have taken over virtually every industry. It is only a matter of time before it takes over in gaming as well.

I'm actually really surprised that Steam and Sony haven't introduced some sort of subscription model for games. Microsoft and EA are already playing around with it. EA Access for $50/year on my PC is an absolutely fantastic deal.
2015 13" rMBP: i5 5257U @ 2.7 GHz || Intel Iris 6100 || 8 GB LPDDR3 1866 || 256 GB SSD || macOS High Sierra
Gaming Build: i5 8400 || Vega 56 || 16 GB DDR4 || 960 Evo NVMe || Win10 Pro
Other: 30TB Plex Server || Xbox One X || PS4 Pro || iPhone X

#40 macdude22

macdude22

    Like, totally awesome.

  • Forum Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2156 posts
  • Steam Name:Rakden
  • Location:Iowa
  • Pro Member:Yes

Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

GeForce Now is technically impressive but still a very subpar experience to a local device. Nvidia is subsidizing it right now as they test and tweak it but if they price it as expected it's going to be DOA. If they offer a subscription ala Game Pass or EA Access it becomes a more palatable proposition.
IMG Discord Server | | http://www.trueachie....com/Rakden.htm
Enterprise (MacPro 3,1): 8 Xeon Cores @ 2.8 GHz || 14 GB RAM || Radeon 4870 || 480GB Crucial M500 + 2TB WD Black (Fusion Drive) || 144hz Asus Mon
Defiant (MacBookPro 9,1): Core i7 @ 2.3ghz || 8GB RAM || nVidia GT 650M 512MB || 512GB Toshiba SSD